An apparent tactic now being used in the raids

[moniss]

was made clear in the raid in Oklahoma on the US citizens. The woman who was raided and terrorized by a massive group of agents in the predawn hours says that when she asked who they were they said US Marshalls, FBI and ICE. Now that the crap has hit the fan because of the botched raid the US Marshalls and FBI claim that none of their people were there.

This tactic works in two ways on the face of it. One is that of plain deceit on the part of the US Marshals and FBI and ICE by using "plain clothes" agents that they can deny were from those organizations. Trying to prove who they were will be nearly impossible when the agencies choose to lie. The second way is that by referring everything back to Homeland Security it will all be able to be swept under the rug by claiming "can't talk about an ongoing investigation" or "can't talk about it because of national security".

Reading the story from the local news site also notes that the woman said to them a tragedy could have happened if she had a gun because she thought they were being robbed. These raids in this fashion will undoubtedly end up with a shooting scenario at some point when somebody being raided thinks they are being attacked by criminals.

It is a microscopically thin line for the raiders of Crumb The 1st between legality and criminality. A line that gets crossed easily but then denied. Here are a couple of excerpts from the article:

"She said they ordered her and her daughters outside into the rain before they could even put on clothes."

“They wanted me to change in front of all of them, in between all of them,” she said. “My husband has not even seen my daughter in her undergarments—her own dad, because it’s respectful. You have her out there, a minor, in her underwear.”

Ordering people to get naked under cover of authority has tight restrictions like in the case of jail strip searches etc. The abuse of the minor daughter is abhorrent behavior. We certainly know of improper sexual conduct cases involving cops and people in authority. Including acts by Federal agents. The idea that eventually the agencies got rid of the offending agents is of little comfort to the people they harmed. To believe that all of these men are upstanding people is not warranted by the facts. Sexual abuse, physical abuse, extortion and depraved indifference can be found all across the country. The videos on the Tube of officers of the law from all different places bullying, abusing, planting evidence, stealing etc. are all over the place. Remember the Secret Service agents who got caught? No video but it still happened.

But with qualified immunity, lies and the "thin blue line" to protect them they know that more often than not they will escape any responsibility. The bottom line is that when they approach you the last thing you can count on is that they are telling you the truth about anything. It is the main reason lawyers tell you to say nothing.

Was the conduct in Oklahoma towards these citizens improper? Absolutely to anyone of us viewing it. But the agents view themselves as omnipotent power able to do as they please, lie and get away with anything under cover lies, plain clothes and other subterfuge. This is why the label ICE-American Gestapo is completely appropriate.

https://kfor.com/news/local/were-citizens-oklahoma-city-family-traumatized-after-ice-raids-home-but-they-werent-suspects/

"US Secret Service Cartagena scandal 'involved 20 women"
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-17747793

"Exclusive: Dozens of Border Agents Investigated for Smuggling, Sex Assault and Bribery"
https://www.newsweek.com/immigration-border-controls-agents-smuggling-1953312

"Sex Crimes Common From U.S. Police, Finds Year-Long AP Investigation"
https://reason.com/2015/11/03/sex-crimes-common-from-us-police/

[MadameButterfly]

1. ICE, police, FBI, and US Marshalls should be in uniform and unmasksed

or they should be considered to be doing illegal actions. How do we know them from ciriminals? How do we know not to shoot? What happened to stand your ground laws (which I don't support, but I presume they do)?

[modrepub]

2. More and More

I believe the whole justice system is more about protecting the privileged than about equal application of the law. One’s opinion on government overreach seems predicated on who’s running the government and not just the government itself.

[MadameButterfly]

3. That is the Republican perspective

Last edited Wed Apr 30, 2025, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

When we get a Democrat, they appoint Merrick Garland instead of Doug Jones to appear "fair."
Republicans never believed in any principles except power unless you go back t the 19th century.
Democrats do. Because they believe in democracy. They understand that these institutions mean more the any single issue at hand. They are under the illusion that the rule of law will protect them when the other guys are in charge.
Would that that was true.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

5. Everybody who notices an abduction or a disappearance or a home invasion, call 911

Bystanders, people inside, neighbors, people looking on from windows.

Call 911.

[Irish_Dem]

9. If you try to help, they will arrest you for obstruction.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

16. That's why don't try to help. Call 911 when ununiformed people abduct someone. . . nt

[allegorical oracle]

14. Absolutely. Unidentified law enforcement can prompt "imitators" to take advantage of these

situations. For example, when a serial killer (like a Ted Bundy) is being reported nationally by media, it can spawn copycat killings. Criminals are opportunists and could mimic law enforcement's behavior to take advantage of vulnerable people.

[2naSalit]

4. Another reason I keep bear spray handy...

And by the door but far enough away where I can use it on intruders.

[allegorical oracle]

15. And make sure you're pointing it in the right direction.... nt

[2naSalit]

17. Indeed...

Thought the cans are designed so that the spray can only be deployed when the can is set in your hand in one direction. You'd have to try to spray yourself. It does spray outward up to 30ft and you want to try to cover your face because spray usually has some of the mist blow back toward you. Those who inhale it will be in a bad way for up to 45 minutes.

I used to train groups of people how and when to use their bear spray when they are out in our wild lands here in Montana. I know a lot about this stuff and I like how it works.

[allegorical oracle]

21. Oh jeesh. Have considered bear spray for protection in my rural area. I have a .22

Winchester that jams (two repairs=no fix). But, yeah, that blowback mist could definitely be a problem. Bear spray is nothing to take lightly from what I've read. And it was being used in the J6 insurrection. Have read that it has the same effect as a choke-hold on a human. Is that accurate?

[Irish_Dem]

6. She also said they pointed guns in their faces, they had no choice but to comply.

[Walleye]

7. Power corrupts.

This is what happens when you give ordinary men unlimited authority. Some of them will go completely bad.

[Demovictory9]

8. The Black woman who was raided (mistakenly) while showering was awarded 2 million dollars

That was a few years ago.. being shady about who is botchingbtjevraids probably makes monetary accountability harder

[Irish_Dem]

10. How soon before actual robbers pretend to be ICE?

Bust in the home, masked, no ID, say they are ICE and steal everything of value and
sexually assault the women.

[EYESORE 9001]

11. Perhaps it's already happening/happened

The victims may not trust law enforcement of any sort, therefore robberies and assaults may go unreported.

[Irish_Dem]

12. Yes they may fear reporting it may result in even worse treatment.

[cachukis]

13. That the eyes are turning away, is our government.

The Constitution was written by the idea that men/women, deserve to experience life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
We have become the world's beacon because of that document. To abrogate the rule of law is wilfully blind.
This is not going well for us and the world.
Can we live under the yoke of the autocrat after we have reasoned our voice of rights?
I know where I stand.

[Meowmee]

18. If they can, they should try to get photographs of them

[moniss]

19. They confiscated their phones

and computers and I would imagine that snapping pictures will result in confiscation. In the Milwaukee judge arrest case another judge apart from Dugan was snapping pictures and probably if this had been out of the public view they would have gone after that judge as well. They usually escalate to physical retaliation almost immediately when they figure nobody can be a witness.

[Meowmee]

20. Maybe a house security cam picked it up... oh well. or a neighbor etc.

[AntiFascist]

22. Homeland Security and the Proud Boys are likely merging, under the watchful eye of Pam Bondi n/t