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MadameButterfly

(3,660 posts)
2. Apparently any president can become king
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:14 PM
Wednesday

if they have both houses of Congress, SCOTUS, and are able to terrify their own party into submission.
Ater Trump is removed and humiliated, some laws will be made about all of this to explain what used to be obvious.

pat_k

(12,227 posts)
4. The ultimate check on tyranny isn't the body of law and institutions. It's the character of the people...
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:58 PM
Wednesday

... that populate those institutions.

Anyone who once "poo pooed" the notion that character matters in our electeds -- perhaps believing that they all have no character -- are learning what it actually means for the people charged with upholding the constitution to have absolutely no moral integrity or respect for the oath of office.

Character does matter and I think it is becoming crystal clear to more and more people that it is not just We the People that are the ultimate check, it is also the character and integrity of the people we elect that makes for decency in government.

Yes, we are a government of institutions and laws. but none of that matters if the institutions are populated by people who are corrupt to their cores.

MadameButterfly

(3,660 posts)
7. Yes
Sat Nov 1, 2025, 06:11 AM
3 min ago

On all levels of government, from civil servants to the military to Congress. To the people dropping bombs on boats in Venezuela. To the police. To the state legislatures, governors, and cities. To everyone that Trump hasn't had the power to hire or fire. To every judge who will stand up to threats and tell him he has to follow the law. To whoever could enforce that law that doesn't.

It's at extreme risk to themselves and their families that people will defy Trump. Who will have the courage and make the sacrifice? How many heroes do we have? How far does he have to go before we find out? And how can we support and protect our heroes?

pat_k

(12,227 posts)
3. While Stephen Miller has undoubtedly told him the insurrection act is not subject to judicial review...
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 08:34 PM
Wednesday

... that isn't actually true.

Tragically, we have a SCOTUS that appears to put no limits, but his deployment of active-duty military under a claim of "insurrection" can be challenged. Challenges could at least slow him the hell down and put the insanity of his actions before the American people in ongoing news stories as the challenges make their way though the courts.

From Gemini (take with whatever grains of salt any AI summary requires).

A president's decision to invoke the Insurrection Act is subject to some judicial review, though legal precedent provides significant deference to the president. While the courts have historically been reluctant to second-guess a president's initial determination to deploy troops, they can review the lawfulness of the military's actions once deployed.

Limits on judicial review

Presidential discretion: In the 1827 case Martin v. Mott, the Supreme Court established that the president has the sole authority to determine when the Insurrection Act is necessary. This decision is "conclusive upon all other persons," setting a high bar for challenges to the initial invocation.

Congressional silence: Legal experts have noted that the Insurrection Act offers "neither a role for Congress nor a basis for serious judicial review," which grants the president broad authority and contributes to the deference shown by courts.


Situations allowing for judicial review

Despite the broad deference, some circumstances may allow for a challenge:

Bad faith: Courts may intervene if a president has acted in "bad faith" and demonstrably exceeded a "permitted range of honest judgment". A challenge would be strongest if evidence suggests the president fabricated an "insurrection" for political advantage.

Unconstitutional actions: The Insurrection Act does not shield the military from constitutional restrictions. Courts can review the lawfulness of the military's conduct after troops are deployed, including any potential violations of constitutional rights such as unreasonable searches or improper detention.

Violation of other federal laws: If actions taken under the Insurrection Act violate other federal statutes, such as limitations on military involvement in elections, courts could intervene.

Challenging the act itself: Some legal experts have argued that states could challenge the Insurrection Act as an unconstitutionally broad delegation of power to the executive branch.


Congressional efforts toward reform

In recent years, members of Congress have proposed legislation to increase judicial review of the Insurrection Act, though none have been enacted. The "Insurrection Act of 2025" was introduced in the Senate to add judicial review and other checks on presidential power.



JoseBalow

(8,863 posts)
5. Don't hold your breath, Mia
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 09:58 PM
Wednesday

Things are going to get much, much worse before they begin to get any better.

Jack Valentino

(3,812 posts)
6. I'm not sure how far down the 'line of succession' we need to go before we could get
Wed Oct 29, 2025, 10:57 PM
Wednesday

"a better one".... but it would seem to be "a fair distance" !


(Not that Trump is any good at all, of course,
but those in the immediate line of succession
are likewise fanatical nazi-wannabe "morans" (sic) )





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