My aunt and I are taking a flight soon.

[MIButterfly]

I expressed concern about the air traffic controllers and how they've already missed one paycheck and she said "well they make $104,000 a year." What does that have to do with anything? First of all, how do you know how much they make and what expenses they have? Even people with that kind of income can still live month-to-month. I just said "Bigger money, bigger bills." Missing a paycheck can be a hardship for anybody. You don't know their situation. They could have student loan debt; they could have outstanding medical bills; they could be the sole support of aging parents; they could have a deadbeat ex-partner who refuses to pay child support; they could be a divorced parent who has to pay child support; there are any number of reasons why missing a paycheck would not be no big deal. Not to mention that if you do the work, you get paid. This isn't a game. The stupid Republicans are messing with peoples' livelihoods. I imagine those bastards aren't missing any paychecks.

Do I have to mention what political party my aunt supports? The one my uncle tells her to, of course.

[samnsara]

1. my sister in law has sworn off flying after a liftime...

..it wasnt the traffic controllers..its the turbulence.

fly safe..

[MIButterfly]

2. Thanks, samnsara.

I HATE to fly, always have. I hate the entire experience, from the minute I step foot into the airport. But it's the fastest way to get anywhere so I have to force myself to grin and bear it.

[barbtries]

33. try to remember

that statistically, flying is the safest way to travel.

[Happy Hoosier]

12. She's super sensitive to it?

I guess not flying is an option so long as you limit where you’ll go to.

[ColoringFool]

22. Same With Me.

Decades of summers to Europe. Stopped flying completely in 1999, the Year of JFK Jr. No connection, just....I'd been flying more and more white-knuckled.

Luckily, my husband and I discovered the delights of driving to Maine!

[Lonestarblue]

3. If only we had Europe's rail network!

One of the stupidest decisions ever made, at the behest of the auto industry, was to give away the land with railroads and rip up the tracks.

[MIButterfly]

6. I grew up in Detroit and I guess because cars were built there, they expected everyone to have a car

so the city had very little public transportation. They still do. A number of decades ago, they built the People Mover, which is an elevated train that travels in circles for about a mile or two downtown. City buses aren't much better.

[FakeNoose]

17. Back in the 1920's everyone wanted a car, but it was a luxury

By the 1950's cars became an affordable lifestyle, by the 60's they were pretty much an essential expense.
Now we're trapped because there's no other workable option, outside of greater Manhattan NYC.

[MIButterfly]

21. I think Chicago has a great public transit system.

They have the el and they have buses that run every 15 minutes all over the city. They have commuter trains that go to and from the suburbs. When I used to visit my dad in Chicago, I would park my car and we'd use public transportation for the entire time I was there. Even now, when I visit Chicago, I hop on the el which takes me wherever I want to go. That's the way you do public transportation. No cars needed.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

8. Keep in mind that Europe is a lot smaller than the U. S.

It was much easier to build good train service than when you have to cover the kinds of distances in this country.

[barbtries]

11. Is China?

it's not the size, it's the political will to get it done.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

42. Did China start with overwhelming private car ownership?

[Shipwack]

20. Not really an excuse...

I agree in theory we can’t have as dense and convenient rail system as Europe… a train from every city going to every city. But there’s no reason not to have three or for medium rail networks. One for the northeast corridor, one for lower California and Vegas, etc.* Plus a couple of long distance routes.

Not to mention, being a large spread out country isn’t stopping China…

*just examples off the top of my head; I’m sure there are better routes…

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. Actually, it is the excuse.

And the essential difference between China and the US is the difference between them in private car ownership.

The reasons for the destruction of public transportation in this country are complicated, and the support of public transportation elsewhere is also complicated, but in the end it comes down to supporting or not supporting public transportation.

I'm a huge supporter of public transportation. My first seven years in DC were without a car, and the only reason I finally bought one was that I'd decided to take classes at my local community college, and I simply could not take the bus to school and back home and then again to the airport in the same day. Otherwise, I was happy without a car.

[spooky3]

28. In land mass Europe is slightly larger than the US

https://www.iroamly.com/usa-travel/is-the-us-bigger-than-europe.html#:~:text=Although%20the%20U.S.%20is%20a,about%2010.2%20million%20square%20kilometers.

In population, Europe is about double. It’s probably easier to justify the investment when you are carrying many more people, but I agree the primary factor is political will and priorities.

[Pacifist Patriot]

4. I have four air travel trips coming up from November 05 - January 24. I am NOT looking forward to it.

I've been a nervous flier for decades and now have something weird going on with my balance and spatial awareness. Sudden movement generates an over-reaction that includes the physiological symptoms associated with panic attacks. Turbulence wrecks me!!! I warn the flight attendants that they will see tears from me. I can't help it. And these days it doesn't seem to be whether or not you'll hit turbulence in a flight, but how much and how often.

Back to your post though. I completely agree with all your points. I also think she might need to be reminded that $104K today was less than $50K just 30 years ago. Housing and education costs have risen way more than that!

[FakeNoose]

18. I was having occasional dizziness and imbalance like you describe

One possibility is the the inner ear is clogged. Imbalance can happen because of a buildup of earwax.

I know it sounds crazy but many older folks can have this experience. See your regular doctor, a GP or an eye-ear-nose & throat specialist to have it checked out. Often a simple cleaning of years of wax buildup can solve the problem.

[miyazaki]

34. It's why I use motion sickness patches.

Started using them after developing chronic sinus issues. Very helpful.

[barbtries]

35. good advice.

I went through an entire stroke work up and it turned out to be vertigo. Still happens from time to time, but I have exercises and it clears up almost immediately, thankfully.

[Borogove]

5. I have no intention of flying for at least three more years. Unless it's a one-way ticket out of the country.

[erronis]

7. I agree. Then I thought about those "rendition" airplane rides. All expenses paid.

[barbtries]

10. that's not an option in my world.

living across the country from some of the most loved humans in my life and all.

[barbtries]

9. When I told my son that TSA agents are not getting paid,

he didn't believe me. Then he took a flight and asked one of them.

he thinks i believe shit that isn't true. he did not apologize when he admitted that the person confirmed what I said.

my own son. and this guy is NOT a magat. he's just convinced that it's better to spread love and not pay too much attention to the facts on the ground. he does not understand my engagement in politics (as if it hasn't gone so far past politics by now); he thinks it keeps me from being happy.

the whole context of how the conversation started was whether he'd come out here for Thanksgiving. He said no, and I said I'm not looking forward to flying at all while personnel is not being paid. I travel to CA from NC regularly to work with him. I don't wanna go right now. He got pretty nasty.

I think i'm just venting at this point because he owes me an apology and I ain't gonna get it. sorry about that

[Bernardo de La Paz]

14. Don't know about you, but I'm happy even while loathing and despising tRump

Sorry about friction with your son.

When I was in the US, I despised Bush and yet I was happy.
In Canada, I despised Prime Minister Harper and yet I was happy.

It's very possible to be happy while being upset about the state of politics. Hate is hot, consuming, toxic, and leads to unhappiness. Loathing and despising are cold and don't interfere with happiness.

[barbtries]

16. thanks

I am reasonably happy, but I do feel grief, despair, sadness frequently over the destruction of democracy in my country and the brutality and atrocities going on. I cry a lot, but that's who I am. After I cry I feel better for having done it.

However it's not an option for me to just sing kambaya and "be happy." I'm old. It matters more than anything else to be sure that the generations coming up behind me have a chance at freedom during their lifetimes.

But I definitely do the "me" time and check out, spend time with loved ones, work, etc. I have a therapist and he's my touchstone, assuring me that I am not going insane or spiraling into a funk so deep I'll never find my way out of it.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. Grief, despair, & sadness I share with you, at times, but they pass before long & I become optimistic again

Especially the despair and grief.

My sadness lingers in the background, a distant expanse of dark clouds, rarely forefront. I sigh a lot and that helps. A sigh and then a move on to something that moves forward.

My thought Is that I can't directly control tRump, dictators, maga, or RepubliConners. So I pick up something I can control, especially something I can do for myself, and do that. Or some diversion / entertainment.

[Hope22]

25. I'm sorry you had to endure that.

There are times when I ask myself who my sons mother is!🙏🏼💗

[barbtries]

32. I know who my ex-DIL's mother is

and steer clear! the saddest part of that is she could find her own son kidnapped by ICE. for whatever reason the paperwork never got done.

same is true for my own brother, sadly.

My son is liberal, but he's also suspicious of "both sides" in a big way. He'll be 50 this year but still seems to think we can wish our way to a better world. I wish he was right.

ETA you may have noticed that the fact you were talking about yourself flew directly over my head!

[RainCaster]

13. We flew Tuesday, will again next week

So far, so good. We'll see how well this holds up. If we make it out safely, we'll be stuck in England. I could think of worse places to be stuck.

[barbtries]

36. how was it at the airports?

I flew from CA to NC on the first or second day of the shutdown and RDU (raleigh durham NC) had every automatic walkway and escalator closed on one side. I didn't think it was mechanical. The reason I don't want to fly is because people need to eat, they need to pay rent. Air traffic controllers make good money but TSA agents do not. I can't blame a single one if they go find a different job that will actually pay them.

it feels like playing with fire. When the shutdown first started I thought this will be the thing that gets republicans to reopen the government, now I'm afraid they're happy to never reopen.

[3Hotdogs]

15. We make $110,000. Fortunately, it is SS and defined

benefit pension. But we would be up shit’s creek if the money stopped- AND our mortgage is paid off.

[Topomi]

23. I Quit flying

A month after 9/11 was my last trip on a plane. We were treated like livestock plus under constant suspicion and I enjoy driving.

[Wonder Why]

24. Have a wonderful(?) trip with her.

[MIButterfly]

27. I hope to have a wonderful trip DESPITE her!

Last edited Thu Oct 30, 2025, 01:49 PM - Edit history (1)

One of us always bites her tongue around the other and it isn't her. I do it to keep the peace, because she and my uncle (my late mother's brother) are basically the only family I have. It's not always easy......

[Ocelot II]

26. Air traffic controllers are paid pretty well, and they should be.

It's a high-stress job with enormous responsibility. But the fact that they are paid well (when they do get paid) has nothing to do with the fairness of withholding anybody's paycheck or with the consequences not only to the employee but to everyone who might be downstream of that paycheck. Those normally well-paid air traffic controllers won't be buying stuff or paying other people who rely on them, and this is true to various degrees of all of the people who aren't getting paid, no matter how large or small their missing paychecks might be.

[mnhtnbb]

29. I flew home from Heathrow to RDU

a week ago today. No problems. If you can take a direct flight --without connections--do it. Much less chance for delays or cancellations.

I did, however, witness a woman being taken away by Immigration officials. She was in the line for holders of US Passports and Permanent Residents. In my 40 years of traveling internationally, I'd never seen that.

I hope you have an uneventful flying experience!

[MIButterfly]

37. Thanks, mnhtnbb!

[Tree Lady]

30. My daughter makes over double that

But has high rent in CA and helps both her kids in late 20's. And her boyfriend doesn't work, don't get me started on him....if he was a nice guy maybe I wouldn't care, but he is maga and a jerk. And she is in tax bracket as a single that takes a ton of it. So what you make is not always what you have.

[MIButterfly]

38. Exactly!

I hope your daughter comes to her senses about that guy sooner rather than later. I am dealing with a somewhat similar situation. My best friend is living with and supporting a convicted felon who's out on bail (which she put up, of course!). Never even knew him before he went to jail. Don't get ME started!

[Tree Lady]

40. Feel same way unfortunately she has been with

Him for years despite entire family not liking him. She stopped years ago bringing him to anything, and I notice she is hardly with him, works late, busy most weekends. He seems to know how to manipulate her.

He is supposed to cook and clean but he smashes dishes around breaking them, it's obvious he hates doing it but knows he has to. In a way I am glad she lives out of state would drive me crazy to see it all the time.

He is a body builder and spends everyday at the gym, walks around house with shirt off thinking he looks good, ugh!

[ms.pamela]

31. Flying

Here on the west coast $104,000 is barely making it if you have a kid or two. $200,000 a year is considered middle class. I know it is hard for folks living in cheaper areas of the country to understand that especially those whose homes are paid for. I remember reading something recently that explained bill by bill how little a single person would have left each month if they made $75,000 a year and that wasn't for the west coast either. The cost of rent is enormous, example a one-bedroom apartment rents for a minimum of $1,500 a month and that does not include utilities except maybe trash, add on electricity-gas, internet and rental insurance and that amount could easily hit $2,000. Healthcare costs are high, taxes, (federal and state) are high, food is expensive without even eating out. The costs of owning a car- insurance, gas and upkeep adds up, never mind a car payment. Not much left for savings, clothing, entertainment or charity. Getting to the point, this study showed after the person put around 2% of their income into a 401K there was only $3,000 left a year for things like clothing, cable, gifts, charities or emergencies. Probably much less now due to the rising cost of food and health insurance. So much for the great American experiment. I really dislike people l who think like your aunt. Air traffic controllers have an extremely stressful job, so much so it causes many of them health issues. Now they are expected to work without pay, just disgusting.

[MIButterfly]

39. Exactly. People like my aunt have absolutely no idea

what other people have to go through or deal with.

I agree with every word you said, especially about how air traffic controllers have an extremely stressful job and being asked to work without pay is disgusting.

[RVN VET71]

41. Your aunt is very naive.

Don't be harsh on her. It appears her world was designed and made by her husband -- and has extremely narrow borders.