General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsHere's How the AI Crash Happens
The U.S. is becoming an Nvidia-state.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2025/10/data-centers-ai-crash/684765/
https://archive.ph/ItWnp

Data centers in New Carlisle, Indiana (AJ Mast / The New York Times / Redux)
The AI boom is visible from orbit. Satellite photos of New Carlisle, Indiana, show greenish splotches of farmland transformed into unmistakable industrial parks in less than a years time. There are seven rectangular data centers there, with 23 more on the way. Inside each of these buildings, endless rows of fridge-size containers of computer chips wheeze and grunt as they perform mathematical operations at an unfathomable scale. The buildings belong to Amazon and are being used by Anthropic, a leading AI firm, to train and run its models. According to one estimate, this data-center campus, far from complete, already demands more than 500 megawatts of electricity to power these calculationsas much as hundreds of thousands of American homes. When all the data centers in New Carlisle are built, they will demand more power than two Atlantas.
The amount of energy and money being poured into AI is breathtaking. Global spending on the technology is projected to hit $375 billion by the end of the year and half a trillion dollars in 2026. Three-quarters of gains in the S&P 500 since the launch of ChatGPT came from AI-related stocks; the value of every publicly traded company has, in a sense, been buoyed by an AI-driven bull market. To cement the point, Nvidia, a maker of the advanced computer chips underlying the AI boom, yesterday became the first company in history to be worth $5 trillion.
Heres another way of thinking about the transformation under way: Multiplying Fords current market cap 94 times over wouldnt quite get you to Nvidias. Yet 20 years ago, Ford was worth nearly triple what Nvidia was. Much like how Saudi Arabia is a petrostate, the U.S. is a burgeoning AI stateand, in particular, an Nvidia-state. The number keeps going up, which has a buoying effect on markets that is, in the short term, good. But every good earnings report further entrenches Nvidia as a precariously placed, load-bearing piece of the global economy.
America appears to be, at the moment, in a sort of benevolent hostage situation. AI-related spending now contributes more to the nations GDP growth than all consumer spending combined, and by another calculation, those AI expenditures accounted for 92 percent of GDP growth during the first half of 2025. Since the launch of ChatGPT, in late 2022, the tech industry has gone from making up 22 percent of the value in the S&P 500 to roughly one-third. Just yesterday, Meta, Microsoft, and Alphabet all reported substantial quarterly-revenue growth, and Reuters reported that OpenAI is planning to go public perhaps as soon as next year at a value of up to $1 trillionwhich would be one of the largest IPOs in history. (An OpenAI spokesperson told Reuters, An IPO is not our focus, so we could not possibly have set a date; OpenAI and The Atlantic have a corporate partnership.)
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cachukis
(3,521 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)tinrobot
(11,844 posts)Except... they'll forget that every job lost to AI is one less consumer putting money back into the economy.
AZJonnie
(2,017 posts)"They" do not need 8B people on this planet any more.
Not even close.
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)Jobs aren't going away, though specific ones will and many jobs will change radically. There are all kinds of other jobs that need doing, so there will be disruption and dislocation. But ultimately two things will happen:
1) The unsustainable concentration of wealth and income will either come undone by reform or revolution. Reform could lead to things like guaranteed basic income from the huge productivity and profits.
2) There will remain for the foreseeable future (say to the end of 2100) a need for judgment, especially with AI. There will be two broad categories of jobs in the future: high touch and high judgment.
2a) High touch is all about human-human interaction. Live entertainment, turning a patient over in a hospital bed, teach a child a craft. If robots are fixing cars and painting walls, people will want to interact with people. Yes there will be loners (
(a little bit)) and withdrawn people with their tamaguchis and their AI pals and AI pets, etc. (not me). But most people like at least some people and that will become valuable and desirable by contrast.
2b) With AI slop and "hallucinations", which will persist even when high level reasoning is integrated, there is and will remain a need to ride herd over AI agents and bots and robots. An AI might develop a plan for accomplishing a goal that involves writing code, but also how the code will interact with people and how it will be sold and marketed etc. All of that will have to be reviewed, tested, adjusted, or aborted, as the case may be.
2c) Beyond judgment, there will always be a need for creativity. People who say that AI can't be creative don't really understand creativity and its wellsprings. However, AI creativity will mainly be thinking inside the box. People can supply outside-the-box creativity beyond judgment.
bsiebs
(895 posts)highplainsdem
(58,823 posts)bsiebs
(895 posts)UpInArms
(53,608 posts)But
it produces nothing
No food
No jobs
No real useable product
washing machine, dryer, refrigerator, sofa, chair, table
Nothing that can be held in your hand and used, I.e. tool
Not a house or an apartment
It merely consumes massive amounts of power
It is a nothing monster
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)No food? What does it mean to produce food? Plant a seed, irrigate it, fertilize the plant, harvest it, package it. Robots can produce food.
No jobs? AI and robots reduce the need for people to do dull, dirty, dangerous jobs and frees them up for more interaction with each other: high touch like teaching a child a craft.
No product? Robots make cars. AI writes software. Agentic AI perform services. AI and robots can build houses and the tools to build the houses and the tools to make the tools to build houses.
AI as it exist consumes massive amounts of power. It is a fundamental large mistake to think that is the end of its development.
genxlib
(6,026 posts)Either AI is a bubble that will crush the economy
Or
Its not which will crush the environment
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)Last edited Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)
See my other posts. There are lots more than just two (2) choices.
usonian
(22,009 posts)Yes, it's a bubble. Money chasing money, and the "best outcome" I can see for AI is in specialized verticals, where it's trained on very specific data. And the rest just sediments. "Free AI forever with our phone"
Something that's trained on everything is worth nothing. It has novelty value right now, but not for long.
You might compare it to salesforce. An entrerprise kind of thing. Profitable, but not trillions.
It's holding up an economy in downfall.
Period.
Graphic:

Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)So too will be the AI bubble, though it may deflate in less dramatic ways.
Fiendish Thingy
(21,270 posts)I mean, other than raising capital from investors, are these companies generating any income? How?
Im sure gaming and special effects units for films would pay for AI services, but once ChatGPT starts charging (isnt it free now? Dont know, I dont use it), I imagine usage will drop precipitously- unless AI companies are expecting students, journalists, influencers etc. to become so dependent on the technology that they cant give it up?
I dont get it, but I do expect it to collapse at some point.
Celerity
(52,809 posts)spend its way to superintelligence more tenuous by the day.
The people who are paying attention to this cycle are getting anxious. On a scale from one to 10, the AI-bubble concern is: people posting memes of Christian Bales character from The Big Short, squinting in disbelief at his computer monitor. If tech stocks fall because of AI companies failing to deliver on their promises, the highly leveraged hedge funds that are invested in these companies could be forced into fire sales. This could create a vicious cycle, causing the financial damage to spread to pension funds, mutual funds, insurance companies, and everyday investors. As capital flees the market, non-tech stocks will also plummet: bad news for anyone who thought to play it safe and invest in, for instance, real estate. If the damage were to knock down private-equity firms (which are invested in these data centers) themselveswhich manage trillions and trillions of dollars in assets and constitute what is basically a global shadow-banking systemthat could produce another major crash.
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)You make some good points in your post. But though non-tech stocks will decline too, they will not so much as the AI stocks.
Fiendish Thingy
(21,270 posts)Selena Gomez herself couldnt have explained it better (Big Short reference)
I figured there were some heavily leveraged players involved.
So bigger data centers wont necessarily produce smarter AI?
Thats actually a relief of sorts, even though the risks of financial calamity are great.
If you can type such a concise summary of the impending AI crash, Im wondering how many investors have also figured this out, and are struggling with the dilemma between fear vs. greed, and when will they reach the tipping point and bail?
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)There is already circular financing, all legal, but not ultimately sustainable though it can provide a leg up. Just like pets.com in the 2000 internet bubble, a company with no real product and no real customers, there are power companies springing that have no power to sell, just the promise (see Fermi which just went to IPO, a company created by Rick Perry, the politician from Texas formerly Energy Sec).
AI technology is powerful and useful and young. It is being over-promised but the promises will be fulfilled in the next cycle with much greater power efficiency.
AI is not simply the production of videos or meme graphics. Nor is it the distillation of reams of text into a sloppy summary. It is much deeper or will be much deeper in most aspects of life.
IronLionZion
(50,221 posts)they often have a free option to get people started, interested, learning about it, etc. There are pay versions for professional use.
For both of them, worry about what they do with the data they harvest from you.
They likely sell it.
Then there are private AI models where they claim your data doesn't leave your enterprise network. I'm not sure how well I trust it but governments and militaries and intelligence agencies use them. These are for pay.
Then there are agentic AI models, which are autonomous robotic processes. That's what does a lot of functions that humans used to do. Companies pay for these.
Bmoboy
(566 posts)AI is supposed to take over all computational and system management jobs.
Power grids, shipping, traffic, communication, stock and bond markets, banking, and so on.
Automated, satellite controlled machines doing agriculture, mining, energy production, etc.
No need for managers, IT specialists, salesforces, producers of entertainment - no middle class jobs, no industrial jobs, no retail jobs.
With no one able to buy the products created by the automated factories because there are no more jobs, there is no transfer of wealth, no profits, no return on investment, no one to pay the electric bill.
Poof!
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)There will always be jobs needed.
I think you will always prefer hair styling done by a human, a singer-songwriter with a guitar on stage, a kind human to teach your child how to paint a picture.
Bmoboy
(566 posts)And they don't buy a lot of stuff.
Bernardo de La Paz
(59,935 posts)Same thing about industrial "automation" in the 1950s. Wrong too.
As some jobs go away, others become more viable.
leftstreet
(37,846 posts)ancianita
(42,434 posts)Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:58 AM - Edit history (1)
since 2021. Recent analyses from Carnegie Mellon University and North Carolina State University predict an "average nationwide increase" of 8% by 2030.
Mr. Evil
(3,412 posts)There aren't any solar panels or wind turbines. All this new technology hooked up to an ancient grid that is also tasked with providing power to other businesses and families. If they're going to do this, they should be required to provide their own electricity or at least, some of it. They don't have to use the giant wind turbines like we see offshore but, multiple vertical turbines that can be small enough to install at any home. As for solar panels that should be a no-brainer. Cover every roof and all available areas surrounding the facility. On top of all that they also use a shit-ton of water so they have to be built practically right next to a river.
Something just tells me that they may be jumping the gun a bit. Counting more money before they actually have it. It seems they're already partying with the good and totally forgetting that the bad is just outside the door waiting to barge in.
Melon
(853 posts)The markets need to come down and interest rates to refinance debt have got to drop. Ill get accused of gop talking points, but I am a strong believer in balancing the budget and reducing our debt. Back to the reduced debt we saw during Clinton. The amount of interest we pay is not sustainable. If this is pushed with AI, theyll do it.
highplainsdem
(58,823 posts)industry that deserved to crash, it's gen AI. And the tech lords responsible for the IP theft to train the AI, and the con job and circular financing, deserve prison sentences.
