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Celerity

(52,809 posts)
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:36 PM Yesterday

Here's How the AI Crash Happens


The U.S. is becoming an Nvidia-state.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/2025/10/data-centers-ai-crash/684765/

https://archive.ph/ItWnp


Data centers in New Carlisle, Indiana (AJ Mast / The New York Times / Redux)

The AI boom is visible from orbit. Satellite photos of New Carlisle, Indiana, show greenish splotches of farmland transformed into unmistakable industrial parks in less than a year’s time. There are seven rectangular data centers there, with 23 more on the way. Inside each of these buildings, endless rows of fridge-size containers of computer chips wheeze and grunt as they perform mathematical operations at an unfathomable scale. The buildings belong to Amazon and are being used by Anthropic, a leading AI firm, to train and run its models. According to one estimate, this data-center campus, far from complete, already demands more than 500 megawatts of electricity to power these calculations—as much as hundreds of thousands of American homes. When all the data centers in New Carlisle are built, they will demand more power than two Atlantas.

The amount of energy and money being poured into AI is breathtaking. Global spending on the technology is projected to hit $375 billion by the end of the year and half a trillion dollars in 2026. Three-quarters of gains in the S&P 500 since the launch of ChatGPT came from AI-related stocks; the value of every publicly traded company has, in a sense, been buoyed by an AI-driven bull market. To cement the point, Nvidia, a maker of the advanced computer chips underlying the AI boom, yesterday became the first company in history to be worth $5 trillion.

Here’s another way of thinking about the transformation under way: Multiplying Ford’s current market cap 94 times over wouldn’t quite get you to Nvidia’s. Yet 20 years ago, Ford was worth nearly triple what Nvidia was. Much like how Saudi Arabia is a petrostate, the U.S. is a burgeoning AI state—and, in particular, an Nvidia-state. The number keeps going up, which has a buoying effect on markets that is, in the short term, good. But every good earnings report further entrenches Nvidia as a precariously placed, load-bearing piece of the global economy.

America appears to be, at the moment, in a sort of benevolent hostage situation. AI-related spending now contributes more to the nation’s GDP growth than all consumer spending combined, and by another calculation, those AI expenditures accounted for 92 percent of GDP growth during the first half of 2025. Since the launch of ChatGPT, in late 2022, the tech industry has gone from making up 22 percent of the value in the S&P 500 to roughly one-third. Just yesterday, Meta, Microsoft, and Alphabet all reported substantial quarterly-revenue growth, and Reuters reported that OpenAI is planning to go public perhaps as soon as next year at a value of up to $1 trillion—which would be one of the largest IPOs in history. (An OpenAI spokesperson told Reuters, “An IPO is not our focus, so we could not possibly have set a date”; OpenAI and The Atlantic have a corporate partnership.)

snip

30 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Here's How the AI Crash Happens (Original Post) Celerity Yesterday OP
Worrying. cachukis Yesterday #1
Yes, somewhat. . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Yesterday #8
So they'll fast-track AI in all the things just to prop up the economy. tinrobot Yesterday #2
They haven't forgotten that at all - the EXACT same machines are the ones used to make crypto coins AZJonnie Yesterday #10
No. But your point about jobs & economy is good. Bernardo de La Paz Yesterday #11
There was some AI generated music that really amazed me... I like your take on this btw... bsiebs 23 hrs ago #23
It wouldn't amaze you if you cared about the artists whose work was stolen to train the AI. highplainsdem 10 hrs ago #28
I'm amazed at what trump did to the east wing of the white house... doesn't mean I agree with it... bsiebs 9 hrs ago #30
Well, that is all grand UpInArms Yesterday #3
Wrong. You seem to have adopted an ideological tenet in your first sentence and warped your perspective around it. Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #12
Pick your poison genxlib Yesterday #4
A limited perspective leads to nihilism. Enlarge your perspective and think outside of the box a little more. Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #13
I posted earlier. usonian Yesterday #5
Yes, it is a bubble, but the previous internet bubble of 2000 led to smart phones and many things we love to use. Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #15
I'm not finding the "how the crash happens" part Fiendish Thingy Yesterday #6
The improvements made by each new AI model are becoming smaller and smaller, making the idea that Silicon Valley can Celerity Yesterday #7
Just like LLMs were revolutionary, there are or will be new revolutionary developments that won't be small and increment Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #17
Thank You Fiendish Thingy 23 hrs ago #18
Likewise. The article laid out many issues a lot of us are familiar with but was not very enlightening. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #16
The crash or bubble deflation will be triggered by small or large collapses of financing built on over-promises & fraud Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #20
There are plenty of pay AI services IronLionZion 22 hrs ago #25
If i understand it, which is a big question Bmoboy Yesterday #9
No. Not a takeover of all such jobs. There will remain a need for judgement, creativity, and oversight Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #19
That's not a huge workforce Bmoboy 23 hrs ago #21
People said the same thing about the transition to mechanized farming. They were wrong. Bernardo de La Paz 23 hrs ago #22
DURec leftstreet 23 hrs ago #14
AI growth's raised electrical utility costs nationwide. Per Forbes & Joinarbor.com, residential costs have risen by 30% ancianita 23 hrs ago #24
One thing I noticed in the picture. Mr. Evil 22 hrs ago #26
I think trump wants and needs a crash. Our debt level is too high and the costs to service the debt. Melon 22 hrs ago #27
Thanks, Celerity! Generative AI is the most harmful tech ever developed, and if there was ever an highplainsdem 9 hrs ago #29

tinrobot

(11,844 posts)
2. So they'll fast-track AI in all the things just to prop up the economy.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:44 PM
Yesterday

Except... they'll forget that every job lost to AI is one less consumer putting money back into the economy.

AZJonnie

(2,017 posts)
10. They haven't forgotten that at all - the EXACT same machines are the ones used to make crypto coins
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:36 PM
Yesterday

"They" do not need 8B people on this planet any more.

Not even close.

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
11. No. But your point about jobs & economy is good.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:36 PM
Yesterday

Jobs aren't going away, though specific ones will and many jobs will change radically. There are all kinds of other jobs that need doing, so there will be disruption and dislocation. But ultimately two things will happen:

1) The unsustainable concentration of wealth and income will either come undone by reform or revolution. Reform could lead to things like guaranteed basic income from the huge productivity and profits.

2) There will remain for the foreseeable future (say to the end of 2100) a need for judgment, especially with AI. There will be two broad categories of jobs in the future: high touch and high judgment.

2a) High touch is all about human-human interaction. Live entertainment, turning a patient over in a hospital bed, teach a child a craft. If robots are fixing cars and painting walls, people will want to interact with people. Yes there will be loners ( (a little bit)) and withdrawn people with their tamaguchis and their AI pals and AI pets, etc. (not me). But most people like at least some people and that will become valuable and desirable by contrast.

2b) With AI slop and "hallucinations", which will persist even when high level reasoning is integrated, there is and will remain a need to ride herd over AI agents and bots and robots. An AI might develop a plan for accomplishing a goal that involves writing code, but also how the code will interact with people and how it will be sold and marketed etc. All of that will have to be reviewed, tested, adjusted, or aborted, as the case may be.

2c) Beyond judgment, there will always be a need for creativity. People who say that AI can't be creative don't really understand creativity and its wellsprings. However, AI creativity will mainly be thinking inside the box. People can supply outside-the-box creativity beyond judgment.

highplainsdem

(58,823 posts)
28. It wouldn't amaze you if you cared about the artists whose work was stolen to train the AI.
Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:41 PM
10 hrs ago

bsiebs

(895 posts)
30. I'm amazed at what trump did to the east wing of the white house... doesn't mean I agree with it...
Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:47 PM
9 hrs ago

UpInArms

(53,608 posts)
3. Well, that is all grand
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:50 PM
Yesterday

But … it produces nothing

No food
No jobs
No real useable product … washing machine, dryer, refrigerator, sofa, chair, table
Nothing that can be held in your hand and used, I.e. tool
Not a house or an apartment

It merely consumes massive amounts of power

It is a nothing monster

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
12. Wrong. You seem to have adopted an ideological tenet in your first sentence and warped your perspective around it.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:42 PM
23 hrs ago

No food? What does it mean to produce food? Plant a seed, irrigate it, fertilize the plant, harvest it, package it. Robots can produce food.

No jobs? AI and robots reduce the need for people to do dull, dirty, dangerous jobs and frees them up for more interaction with each other: high touch like teaching a child a craft.

No product? Robots make cars. AI writes software. Agentic AI perform services. AI and robots can build houses and the tools to build the houses and the tools to make the tools to build houses.

AI as it exist consumes massive amounts of power. It is a fundamental large mistake to think that is the end of its development.

genxlib

(6,026 posts)
4. Pick your poison
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:54 PM
Yesterday

Either AI is a bubble that will crush the economy

Or

It’s not which will crush the environment

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
13. A limited perspective leads to nihilism. Enlarge your perspective and think outside of the box a little more.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:43 PM
23 hrs ago

Last edited Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:16 PM - Edit history (1)

See my other posts. There are lots more than just two (2) choices.

usonian

(22,009 posts)
5. I posted earlier.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:55 PM
Yesterday

Yes, it's a bubble. Money chasing money, and the "best outcome" I can see for AI is in specialized verticals, where it's trained on very specific data. And the rest just sediments. "Free AI forever with our phone"

Something that's trained on everything is worth nothing. It has novelty value right now, but not for long.

You might compare it to salesforce. An entrerprise kind of thing. Profitable, but not trillions.

It's holding up an economy in downfall.

Period.

Graphic:

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
15. Yes, it is a bubble, but the previous internet bubble of 2000 led to smart phones and many things we love to use.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:45 PM
23 hrs ago

So too will be the AI bubble, though it may deflate in less dramatic ways.

Fiendish Thingy

(21,270 posts)
6. I'm not finding the "how the crash happens" part
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 09:59 PM
Yesterday

I mean, other than raising capital from investors, are these companies generating any income? How?

I’m sure gaming and special effects units for films would pay for AI services, but once ChatGPT starts charging (isn’t it free now? Don’t know, I don’t use it), I imagine usage will drop precipitously- unless AI companies are expecting students, journalists, influencers etc. to become so dependent on the technology that they can’t give it up?

I don’t get it, but I do expect it to collapse at some point.

Celerity

(52,809 posts)
7. The improvements made by each new AI model are becoming smaller and smaller, making the idea that Silicon Valley can
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:07 PM
Yesterday

spend its way to superintelligence more tenuous by the day.

The people who are paying attention to this cycle are getting anxious. On a scale from one to 10, the AI-bubble concern is: people posting memes of Christian Bale’s character from The Big Short, squinting in disbelief at his computer monitor. If tech stocks fall because of AI companies failing to deliver on their promises, the highly leveraged hedge funds that are invested in these companies could be forced into fire sales. This could create a vicious cycle, causing the financial damage to spread to pension funds, mutual funds, insurance companies, and everyday investors. As capital flees the market, non-tech stocks will also plummet: bad news for anyone who thought to play it safe and invest in, for instance, real estate. If the damage were to knock down private-equity firms (which are invested in these data centers) themselves—which manage trillions and trillions of dollars in assets and constitute what is basically a global shadow-banking system—that could produce another major crash.

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
17. Just like LLMs were revolutionary, there are or will be new revolutionary developments that won't be small and increment
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:48 PM
23 hrs ago

You make some good points in your post. But though non-tech stocks will decline too, they will not so much as the AI stocks.

Fiendish Thingy

(21,270 posts)
18. Thank You
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:50 PM
23 hrs ago

Selena Gomez herself couldn’t have explained it better (Big Short reference)

I figured there were some heavily leveraged players involved.

So bigger data centers won’t necessarily produce smarter AI?

That’s actually a relief of sorts, even though the risks of financial calamity are great.

If you can type such a concise summary of the impending AI crash, I’m wondering how many investors have also figured this out, and are struggling with the dilemma between fear vs. greed, and when will they reach the tipping point and bail?

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
16. Likewise. The article laid out many issues a lot of us are familiar with but was not very enlightening. . . . nt
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:46 PM
23 hrs ago

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
20. The crash or bubble deflation will be triggered by small or large collapses of financing built on over-promises & fraud
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:02 PM
23 hrs ago

There is already circular financing, all legal, but not ultimately sustainable though it can provide a leg up. Just like pets.com in the 2000 internet bubble, a company with no real product and no real customers, there are power companies springing that have no power to sell, just the promise (see Fermi which just went to IPO, a company created by Rick Perry, the politician from Texas formerly Energy Sec).

AI technology is powerful and useful and young. It is being over-promised but the promises will be fulfilled in the next cycle with much greater power efficiency.

AI is not simply the production of videos or meme graphics. Nor is it the distillation of reams of text into a sloppy summary. It is much deeper or will be much deeper in most aspects of life.

IronLionZion

(50,221 posts)
25. There are plenty of pay AI services
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:49 PM
22 hrs ago

they often have a free option to get people started, interested, learning about it, etc. There are pay versions for professional use.

For both of them, worry about what they do with the data they harvest from you. They likely sell it.

Then there are private AI models where they claim your data doesn't leave your enterprise network. I'm not sure how well I trust it but governments and militaries and intelligence agencies use them. These are for pay.

Then there are agentic AI models, which are autonomous robotic processes. That's what does a lot of functions that humans used to do. Companies pay for these.

Bmoboy

(566 posts)
9. If i understand it, which is a big question
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:17 PM
Yesterday

AI is supposed to take over all computational and system management jobs.

Power grids, shipping, traffic, communication, stock and bond markets, banking, and so on.
Automated, satellite controlled machines doing agriculture, mining, energy production, etc.

No need for managers, IT specialists, salesforces, producers of entertainment - no middle class jobs, no industrial jobs, no retail jobs.

With no one able to buy the products created by the automated factories because there are no more jobs, there is no transfer of wealth, no profits, no return on investment, no one to pay the electric bill.

Poof!

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
19. No. Not a takeover of all such jobs. There will remain a need for judgement, creativity, and oversight
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 10:51 PM
23 hrs ago

There will always be jobs needed.

I think you will always prefer hair styling done by a human, a singer-songwriter with a guitar on stage, a kind human to teach your child how to paint a picture.

Bernardo de La Paz

(59,935 posts)
22. People said the same thing about the transition to mechanized farming. They were wrong.
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:14 PM
23 hrs ago

Same thing about industrial "automation" in the 1950s. Wrong too.

As some jobs go away, others become more viable.

ancianita

(42,434 posts)
24. AI growth's raised electrical utility costs nationwide. Per Forbes & Joinarbor.com, residential costs have risen by 30%
Thu Oct 30, 2025, 11:29 PM
23 hrs ago

Last edited Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:58 AM - Edit history (1)

since 2021. Recent analyses from Carnegie Mellon University and North Carolina State University predict an "average nationwide increase" of 8% by 2030.

Mr. Evil

(3,412 posts)
26. One thing I noticed in the picture.
Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:19 AM
22 hrs ago

There aren't any solar panels or wind turbines. All this new technology hooked up to an ancient grid that is also tasked with providing power to other businesses and families. If they're going to do this, they should be required to provide their own electricity or at least, some of it. They don't have to use the giant wind turbines like we see offshore but, multiple vertical turbines that can be small enough to install at any home. As for solar panels that should be a no-brainer. Cover every roof and all available areas surrounding the facility. On top of all that they also use a shit-ton of water so they have to be built practically right next to a river.

Something just tells me that they may be jumping the gun a bit. Counting more money before they actually have it. It seems they're already partying with the good and totally forgetting that the bad is just outside the door waiting to barge in.

Melon

(853 posts)
27. I think trump wants and needs a crash. Our debt level is too high and the costs to service the debt.
Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:26 AM
22 hrs ago

The markets need to come down and interest rates to refinance debt have got to drop. I’ll get accused of gop talking points, but I am a strong believer in balancing the budget and reducing our debt. Back to the reduced debt we saw during Clinton. The amount of interest we pay is not sustainable. If this is pushed with AI, they’ll do it.

highplainsdem

(58,823 posts)
29. Thanks, Celerity! Generative AI is the most harmful tech ever developed, and if there was ever an
Fri Oct 31, 2025, 12:46 PM
9 hrs ago

industry that deserved to crash, it's gen AI. And the tech lords responsible for the IP theft to train the AI, and the con job and circular financing, deserve prison sentences.

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