How do we figure out how to do what they do, because it's why they win.

[Arthur_Frain]

On their side you’ve got gun nuts, anti abortion radicals, sovereign citizen nutjobs, misogynists, Christian nationalists, and a whole Pandora’s box of cultists, oddballs, and boogaloo boys. No idea how they manage it, but when it comes time to vote, they are marching in lockstep. Doesn’t make a lot of sense because there’s no reason for them to unify except to “own the libs”. But they always do.

We form a circular firing squad.

How does this happen?

The obvious alternative is that I’m wrong, that there are a hell of a lot more of them than there are of us, and I need to at least admit that this might be a possibility.

But that’s even more depressing.

[bucolic_frolic]

1. They are angry, disciplined, and stuck on themselves.

We are pissed, motivated most of the time, and believe in fairness.

So the components of both sides arrive at different destinations.

[Arthur_Frain]

9. Yeah

But why can’t we unify like they do long enough to win an election and have an opportunity to make some changes.

And not changes like the ACA. I want universal health care.

[ITAL]

2. So many parts of the Democratic base

All feel that they should be the most important constituency, and some get so annoyed when they aren't that they decide not to vote to punish everyone else....believing that will move them up the pecking order.

I do think there are a lot more conservatives than a lot of us want to admit though.

[Arthur_Frain]

10. Me too

I don’t think our fractious nature explains why we lose the message so often.

For the longest time I knew we were outnumbered in the voting booth, but I thought overall numbers trended heavily in our favor. Starting to think maybe they never did.

[CrispyQ]

3. We're in a bad place, but there are not more of them than there are of us.

He couldn't even break 50% last election & that's the most popular he's ever going to be. Remember, the media & social media amplify the crazy voices cuz that gets ratings & attention.

[Arthur_Frain]

11. The voting public vs everyone in the US

Does it matter that they don’t vote? Do they still count?

I get the social media cancer, I’m not looking at Fox News. I’ve watched conservatives win elections I didn’t think they should have had any chance of winning. Consistently.

It doesn’t matter if the media and the social media craze are wrong or not, but it’s damned obvious that they work. I’m not interested in the attention, I’d like to see some real results for our side. It just seems like it’s coming in dribs and drabs, when I want it to be a tidal wave.

And I had to pause, because I almost typed “when it should be a tidal wave”. It’s important to note the difference between the two statements.

[PatSeg]

17. It is more about entertainment

for so many than about real politics. Meanwhile, if THEY are doing something that is helping them win, I don't want to emulate them, but rather find more reasonable alternatives. I don't want to BE them; what is the point then?

[usonian]

4. They play to the old, reactive brain. And vice versa. Here:

Better to blame someone else than make any effort to improve yourself or others.

It's just like antisocial media. Hate and derision drive clicks.

Fascist playbook, if you read history.

You might find solutions or hints there. It has happened to a lot of countries.
Europeans, especially, know this game.

[Arthur_Frain]

12. I'm not sure we as a nation are smart enough to follow Hungary's lead.

Sorry. I wish I had more hope in my fellow Americans.

Not you of course, you’re here, so you’re cool. But you see what I mean.

[usonian]

22. 24 by 7 by 365 brainwashing for years on end.

The "hope" is that whoever is on that side of the fence, who is not part of the cult (show me) or who has just been FAFO'ed to hell, could drop the groupthink.

I did an amateur study of cults and addiction. They appeal to people's weakest aspects. And "breaking out is hard to do" ... even for those not zombied or addicted.

I posted a list of "Let me betray you" tweets, and the expected FAFO's.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100221281666
And "waffling" used to be a big no-no in politics.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100219770873

We "get the point" immediately, but the addiction hides it all.

Until there's some kind of breakthrough.

Cult? Never. Others, maybe,

But we can't count on changing "hearts and minds". Sheeat, those get so frozen.

Just win, Baby.

https://democraticunderground.com/100216524810

[Arthur_Frain]

24. Against what I see to be the odds

I hope we pull it off.

[usonian]

25. Unlike Spain, Italy and Germany, I think there are enough powerful people to halt the takeover.

It just takes a small, stubborn minority to do so.

I think that the Biden presidency destroyed Trump and company's plan (not Project 2025 per se) which required uninterrupted destruction and purging. And perhaps that's why the extreme denial and race against time and Epstein.

Putin is similarly on the way out, though he walked into a minefield, literally, and given the timing, I have to wonder if he wasn't tricked into it with some "leaked" bogus intelligence. But that will come out or not.

The rush to destroy, on Putin's orders, and apparently, Bib's as well, tells me that their incredible intelligence operations have THE VIDEOS. But a rush, instead of a more measured destruction, is starting (FINALLY) to get some pushback, an inflection point, causing even more insane counter-measures.

But Trump is destroyed already from within. He can't escape his crimes, no matter how he tries to deny them.

The ghost lives in him.

[Wounded Bear]

5. When you look too deeply into the abyss...

the abyss looks deeply into you.

Nietzsche?

If we have to become them to defeat them, how are we better?

[Arthur_Frain]

13. I wasn't suggesting walling in the mud with pigs.

How come we can’t come up with a counter that works well? We’re smart aren’t we?

[Janbdwl72]

6. It's sad really, but this happens in virtually every election:

We Democrats, eat our young.

Look at what is happening with Graham Platner in Maine as we speak.

By the way, when someone says a group eats its young, it means the group is self-destructive and turns on its own members, newer generations, or beginners.

If the shoe fits, wear it!

[Arthur_Frain]

14. You bring up a tangential point

We hold ours responsible for the slightest infraction, and we throw them to the wolves.

They do Nazi salutes in public, and it makes them more popular.

How to counter that?

[PatSeg]

19. I think a much bigger problem is the media

No matter what Democrats do, they are always judged by a far different standard. I don't think it is so much about Democrats changing, but about exposing republicans for who and what they are.

[City Lights]

7. A large part of their winning strategy is the fact that they have an

entourage of lying, right-wing media outlets on their side, willing to peddle and amplify whatever garbage they think will them votes. And that right-wing media has been screaming about the "liberal" media for decades and have convinced their viewers that they are the only truthful media out there.

[Arthur_Frain]

15. Even my mom parrots the right wing bullshit.

There’s no arguing with her, they’ve trained her well to pivot, to whatabout, all the lowbrow debate tricks. I’m not skilled at debate. It seems to me that it should be obvious, but I guess not.

Anytime you think you make a point you’re wrong.

Case in point: my dad only got a partial payout on his social security for the longest time until recently, and my mom loudly crowed how she wished she knew who made it happen. I pointed out it was signed into law by Biden. IMMEDIATELY, she refused to give him credit. “no,” she said “somebody else did the legwork, he doesn’t deserve any credit” after I pointed it out.

We are creating our very own Israel/Palestinian “hate from birth” division. I wonder if this is what they wanted to bring about ultimately.

[highplainsdem]

8. Decades of RW media, especially RW talk radio, which has been particularly effective in rural areas.

It didn't happen overnight, and it wasn't just Fox News.

And they focused on power at the state level, aided by organizations like ALEC, the American Legislative Exchange Council, which brought corporations and RW groups together with state legislators to write cookie-cutter bills to pass in state legislatures. A national effort implemented at the state level, where it got much less national media coverage.

[Arthur_Frain]

16. They weren't stupid

Didn’t mean to imply that. McConnell’s obstruction of judiciary nominees throughout Obamas tenure was a brilliant strategy, it fucked us good and hard, and I wonder if we can undo it.

[struggle4progress]

18. They win by lying, cheating, and stealing. If we do that, their natural retort is "Eveybody does it"

The fight is partly strategic, partly tactical, and partly moral

[PatSeg]

20. "Everybody does it"

I've even heard republicans say, "It's just politics". That is what GW Bush said to John McCain after Bush's campaign tried to slander McCain and his family. "It's just politics, John, nothing personal."

So basically, lying is okay if it helps you win, because with republicans, it is all about winning. This rampant dishonesty is why so many people hate politicians. They tend to equate them with used car salesmen.

If we have to lie, cheat, and steal in order to win, then we're no better than they are and we'll deserve what we get.

[struggle4progress]

23. +

[B.See]

21. My theory? Goes something like this:

Democrats and Republicans each have their own forests. Each having better and lesser trees.

But Republicans ignore trees even rotten to the core (of which there are many). Their focus remains the forest.

[Irish_Dem]

26. You have to want to win.

You have to be serious, focused, determined.
And use the best weapons and strategies.

Not the weakest.
Not the most foolish.

[GenThePerservering]

27. They tell you how and what to think

and it's SO much easier to just have someone else tell you what to do, and feel like you're right in doing so.

Democracy takes thought and work, and we're a fat, lazy country.