IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND!! SCOTUS says the Executive can now fire nearly the ENTIRE GOVERNMENT at will.

[Cheezoholic]

The chaos this is going to cause is insane. They tossed an "apparent" bone in by keeping the Fed independent. Why? To protect those that are buying the court $500k RV's, taking them on extravagant world tours in private jets and to protect their own bottom lines because make no mistake, the conservatives on this court are rich as hell and getting richer (you can hide money everywhere these days).

This SCOTUS, with this ruling, gives the Executive the power to dismantle any and all (except the Fed) agencies created by Congress over the last 80 years. The FDA, NOAA, NSF, EPA pick your acronym. If a Democrat wins in '28 reverse all of his appointees or fill his vacancies? Sure, but as soon a s a repuke gets elected they get flipped again. From the agency head to the janitors if they so desire WITHOUT CAUSE!! More power than any head of any business in this country over their company's employee's!!

By enabling this potential for constant flip flopping in these agencies they lose any regulatory power, any teeth, they had. This fulfills Projekts '25's goal of dismantling the entire federal regulatory, education, science and research, environmental labor, banking, I could go on. It's EVERYTHING!! Congress just got pushed to the side. Congress was meant to be the peoples voice to counter the Executive, to check the Executive, to prevent a King and a high Supreme Court of Kings from ruling. This was done to TAKE AWAY POWER FROM A PROBABLE INCOMING DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY IN CONGRESS!! As Sotomayor said in her searing dissent, this is a power even the Crown didn't have. I cant tell you how devastating this going to be.


This single ruling has possibly, probably pushed us off the cliff of Democracy into a pit of authoritarianism. We better hope theres a thin branch poking out on the way down to grab ahold of or it's over. The peoples check on the Executive was just gutted.

Your fired will be the words that finally take this country down to the joy of every Jerry Springer era child in this country. It may be fucking over people. Revolution is starting to look like the only answer IMHO.

[appmanga]

1. Jim Crow John Roberts and His Antebellum Five strike again...

...showing they believe more in what satisfies and works for white nationalists like Steven Bannon and Russell Vought than what works for the majority of the American people. The "unity executive" and the dismantling of the "administrative state" are part of those guy's wish lists. The Roberts Court will go down in infamy as being worse than the Taney Court of the 19th Century.

[Joinfortmill]

16. Disgusting, anti Democracy, and anti Constitutional

[The Madcap]

2. Fall of Rome II

Except we have no Eastern Roman Empire to fall back on. The Supreme Court is supremely corrupt. It will bring us down.

[ananda]

3. It was always going to.

None of this should be a surprise.

[Bettie]

4. SO, as a kid watching TV, I thought quicksand was going to be a big problem....

tuns out it was metaphorical quicksand that would destroy all the good things about our country.

Hopefully, as you said, there's a stick or a vine we can cling to until someone comes along who is willing to help.

[mr715]

15. You like Jon Mulaney?

He opined that watching cartoons as a child, he thought he'd have to worry about quicksand much more than he does in real life.

[Bettie]

19. Yes, I do like him and there were so many things

as a gen x kid we thought would be much bigger problems.

Like being kidnapped! Venomous snakes, quicksand, the Bermuda triangle....lol.

ETA: But the metaphorical quicksand that is this misadministration is what may actually destroy us.

[mr715]

20. There is a horse in a hospital!!

[Bettie]

21. That is literally what my DH and oldest son say to me

any time they see or hear something weird. LOL.

And I will admit, I say it to them every so often too...the first time I heard that one, I was laughing hard enough that I could barely breathe.

[SamuelTheThird]

5. this train is speeding off the tracks

We're already facing tremendous difficulties (environmental, ai) that the best-run governments would be stymied by. Now it will be a gutted regulatory apparatus taking us through the dystopic landscape.

[Cheezoholic]

7. I sincerely believed this is aimed at taking power away from a probable incoming Democratic Congress

and potentially Senate take over. The current Congress and Senate are a lay over and get their belly's rubbed and do nothing co-conspirators with this President and their party. They want it to continue. This ruling takes most power away from Congress to check the Executive. All they have is the power of the purse and subpoena now. Its a COMPLETE separation of power with no checks now and with most of it now in the Executives hands.

While I expected something to hand the Executive more CHECKED power I was not expecting full unfettered control over 90% of the federal govt in the Executives hands with no check. It's a complete violation of the principles this country was founded on. A giant earthquake was felt today as the graves of even the most conservative founders were shaking.

[dave99]

6. President MUST do the firing - In Person - See shitstain slink away cause it can not deal with one on one interactions

like on The Apprentice. shitstain NEVER actually saw any of the "fired" people. shitstain had it in its contract to not be in th e presence of the targets. too scared.

[Fiendish Thingy]

8. I don't believe that is what the ruling says

The ruling was regarding the ability to fire presidentially appointed employees at independent agencies, such as the post office, Kennedy Center, with the exception of the Fed.

P.S, even if this ruling was as all encompassing as you perceive it to be, it could be reversed in 2029 by expanding the court and passing new legislation limiting presidential powers, which the new liberal majority would uphold.

[SamuelTheThird]

9. The court being expanded in 29 is extremely unlikely

Doesn't have the support of most democratic senators

[Cheezoholic]

10. I count nearly 40 "independent" agencies. Sounds pretty all encompassing to me.......

And do you really think we can survive until 2029 with no congressional oversight or power to check him on them and to let him weaponize any agency it wants? And he doesnt need a reason, he can fire on a whim. There will be no government serving the people IMO. This is 90 years of precedent overturned. This is the biggest deal in 100 years IMO and is going to be our downfall.

[Fiendish Thingy]

11. Any department with a cabinet secretary is not an independent agency

So DOD, Education, Energy, Interior, etc. the political appointees were already serving at the pleasure of the president.

Which independent agencies are you most concerned about being affected?

[Cheezoholic]

13. Of course and those are NOT what was in question here. What was in question were 2 things

It was AGAINST THE LAW for an Executive to fire ANY employee of ANY independent agency WITHOUT CAUSE. The agencies with independent boards that are appointed for STAGGERED terms in order to keep one party/Executive from having too much influence on ANY of them, especially those that regulate big business and the economy. Pick an agency, he can fire a receptionist there now because she's not blonde enough. The Executive can fire ANYONE FOR ANY REASON in these agencies now. This is squashing the precedence that was started in the modern era with Humphries in 90 years ago.

I am not talking about cabinet heads or direct presidential appointees approved by Congress. That revolving door has ALWAYS been there. I don't understand how you can't see this. Sotomayor's dissent spells out very clearly the danger of this decision and how far down into the bowls of our government an Executive can exert his/her power and influence and demand for loyalty.

Take it for what you want. Watch and see what happens.

[Fiendish Thingy]

23. Like I said...

Nothing killing the filibuster and expanding the court in 2029 can’t solve.

America painfully survived the robber baron/spoils era for a generation or more- it took the depression to begin to undo it. We can survive the next two years if we elect courageous Dems who will expand the court with the next Dem president.

[appmanga]

24. This is the issue...

...if you can fire employees at will, how can they really be "independent". The Court has made the term "independent agency" a non-sequitur.

[ITAL]

12. John Tyler spoke the best about this

Nearly 200 years ago.


President John Tyler is barely remembered now and when he is, it's often in regards to in his sunset years as he followed his home state Virginia when it seceded shortly before his death.


Tyler was an anti-Jacksonian Whig (practically the only thing that united them was thinking the presidency had grown too powerful under Andrew Jackson) who got put on the ticket because he was the only one who wanted it. Anyway, Jackson's firing of civil servants to replace them with loyalists was something that truly vexed him. Thomas Jefferson had been a friend to his family and he shared that Founding Father's fear of a strong central government and thought Jackson had taken on almost dictatorial power. Even with Van Buren not really following his predecessor's example, Tyler's number one priority arguably seemed to be reigning in the power of the Executive.

Tyler gave an inaugural address of sorts to Congress to lay out his vision shortly after Harrison's death. While not the only topic he discussed, a good 20-25 percent of the speech has to do with foreseeing an autocratic Chief Executive who would need to be checked from putting lackey's in positions of power, especially over the military. He really does seem to have a premonition about some sort of unitary executive, or Trump like figure.


The section, which I quote in full:

"In view of the fact, well avouched by history, that the tendency of all human institutions is to concentrate power in the hands of a single man, and that their ultimate downfall has proceeded from this cause, I deem it of the most essential importance that a complete separation should take place between the sword and the purse. No matter where or how the public moneys shall be deposited, so long as the President can exert the power of appointing and removing at his pleasure the agents selected for their custody, the Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy is in fact the treasurer. A permanent and radical change should therefore be decreed. The patronage incident to the Presidential office, already great, is constantly increasing. Such increase is destined to keep pace with the growth of our population, until, without a figure of speech, an army of officeholders may be spread over the land.

"The unrestrained power exerted by a selfishly ambitious man in order either to perpetuate his authority or to hand it over to some favorite as his successor may lead to the employment of all the means within his control to accomplish his object. The right to remove from office, while subjected to no just restraint, is inevitably destined to produce a spirit of crouching servility with the official corps, which, in order to uphold the hand which feeds them, would lead to direct and active interference in the elections, both State and Federal, thereby subjecting the course of State legislation to the dictation of the chief executive officer and making the will of that officer absolute and supreme.

"I will at a proper time invoke the action of Congress upon this subject, and shall readily acquiesce in the adoption of all proper measures which are calculated to arrest these evils, so full of danger in their tendency. I will remove no incumbent from office who has faithfully and honestly acquitted himself of the duties of his office, except in such cases where such officer has been guilty of an active partisanship or by secret means--the less manly, and therefore the more objectionable has given his official influence to the purposes of party, thereby bringing the patronage of the Government in conflict with the freedom of elections. Numerous removals may become necessary under this rule. These will be made by me through no acerbity of feeling--I have had no cause to cherish or indulge unkind feelings toward any--but my conduct will be regulated by a profound sense of what is due to the country and its institutions; nor shall I neglect to apply the same unbending rule to those of my own appointment. Freedom of opinion will be tolerated, the full enjoyment of the right of suffrage will be maintained as the birthright of every American citizen; but I say emphatically to the official corps, 'Thus far and no farther.' I have dwelt the longer upon this subject because removals from office are likely often to arise, and I would have my countrymen to understand the principle of the Executive action."

[Joinfortmill]

17. Thank you for this.

[Martin68]

14. This is a very dangerous and far-reaching decision. SCOTUS out of control.

[pansypoo53219]

18. maybe the next democratic president can fire the drumpf supreme court picks + clrence.

[PatrickforB]

22. The billionaire robber barons are making the same mistake robber barons have

always made. They are squeezing too hard.

So we see this squeeze in the form of attacks right out of Proj. 2025. As that nice Steve Bannon has said, they are 'flooding the zone with shit.'

This is to discourage us, and there is plenty there, not just this.

But there is also a lot of good stuff happening with the opposition. You will also notice that America seems to be moving left - look at all the progressives winning primaries over institutional Democrats. Not to say anything bad about institutional Dems but voters are increasingly embracing people like Mamdani and AOC. We're seeing that with diverse Democratic progressive candidates like Platner, Talarico and others pushing left.

The problem is the centrists in the party are perceiving this as 'factional warfare' (CNN), while progressives are celebrating. So I said 'problem' - and this is what I mean - in 1932, these so-called 'far-left' 'radical' 'socialist' candidates, these progressives, would have been mainstream New Deal Democrats. That is how far right the mainstream (publicly traded) news media has pushed the dialog.

A centrist Democrat like Biden or Obama would have been, in 1960, akin to an Eisenhower Republican.

In terms of what I'm hearing on the ground in my own work as an economist, people in this country are getting squeezed to death by these irresponsible billionaire tax cuts and the resultant massive cuts in programs that benefit us. The corruption of the Trump regime is vomit-inducing, and Trump has managed to alienate all but about 30 million Americans who unfortunately feel quite comfortable with a white supremacist dictatorship.

I'm told my a number of millennial and GenZ colleagues that they don't ever want us to go back to business as usual. They (and I, for that matter) want some REAL reforms. We see this in the other post showing how Schumer and Jeffries aren't particularly popular, but AOC and Mamdani are. So is Obama, though he is a bit more centrist.

Dangerous times. One thing is certain - we will all live them, whatever may happen. But what comes out on the other side of the midterms is anybody's guess, because - this is important - the right wing has TOLD us this is a coup. The disgusting shill for Wall Street and robber barons has said on video, "The coup will be bloodless if the left lets it be."

So these greed-heads are out to screw us anyway, and there had better be some real reform. Otherwise...well, I don't want to think about that because, silly me, I thought after doing everything right I'd be able to retire in reasonable comfort and die peacefully. I still hope that...

But again, we will all live through whatever comes down the pike, and I cannot cooperate in good conscience with nazis - that is a given, but I will be much less cooperative if people like Schumer and Jeffries start making lip noises about moving forward and burying the past.

NO. I want those Epstein files released and I want trials.

I want investigations and trials for the architects of this debacle, including all Trump appointees.

I want Citizens United overturned.

I want the legal doctrine of shareholder primacy established in the 1919 MI Supreme Court ruling against Ford in favor of the Dodge brothers. We need a stakeholder approach where worker interests (living wage, safety, unionization and so on), and consumer interests (including TRUTH in news reporting from publicly traded corporations like ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, Fox and so on), and finally our environment itself.

I don't give a shit anymore what is 'feasible' politically. I'm fucking sick of the middle class getting fucked every which way but loose.

I WANT CHANGE.