General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsIt's time to push back against the fear porn
Socialist, communist, socialist, communist.
Learn the difference, per Google AI.
Social programs are taxpayer-funded public services, like roads, public schools, and Medicare. They operate within a capitalist free-market system to ensure collective well-being and basic safety nets, and do not abolish private property or market competition.
Communism is a stateless, classless political ideology where all means of productionsuch as factories and farmsare collectively owned, with the total elimination of private property. Social programs are not communism; they are a feature of mixed economies
For socialism:
Social programs (like public schools, roads, Social Security, and Medicare) are government-funded services designed to protect citizens, promote the general welfare, and stabilize a capitalist economy. They do not change who owns the businesses or the means of production.
Socialism, on the other hand, is an economic system. It requires that the means of production (e.g., factories, farms, and businesses) be owned and managed collectively by the workers or the public, rather than by private individuals.Experts and economists across platforms like Quora and Public Seminar generally agree that conflating the two is a common political tactic. Social programs can exist in any societyincluding free-market capitalist economiesto provide a social safety net without dismantling private enterprise.
Universal healthcare will not usher in socialism. The felon pointed out we won the Cold War, pretty sure Social Security predated the Cold War and we won. Im pretty sure we won the Cold War in spite of having New Deal and Great Society programs, which we enjoy to this day, and our country is not collapsing.
The felon is brainwashing people about communism as the new boogeyman, all while helping *himself* to tax money, but is counting on people to think their tax money going to their fellow every day citizen is the problem.
And by chance if youre a MAGA lurker on here reading this (a couple of you have signed up to troll in the past), your false idol never cared about you. If he says he loves you, he might be right - but not in the way you think. Its not because he cares about you, but because youre a useful idiot to him to allow him in his position to grift like its going out of style. His life may be better, doesnt mean yours is.
Whats hilarious is any of you MAGA lurkers who call us libtards, also think someone with TDS had a weather machine to control the temperatures, hence the State Fair being an epic flop or thinking that any of us had anything to do with your false idol scamming you out of money in that crypto coin.
Newsflash: Libtards like myself couldnt care less if *you* reaped what you sowed and got burned and conned. Its the innocent people who didnt vote for this or who voted against this, thats where our concern lies.
Nobody is ever too good for their tax money to help other people in need. Our tax dollars are not more important than someone elses welfare or healthcare, and yes, social programs do operate within capitalist economies. Social programs do not equal socialism or communism, but considering how MAGA feels entitled to their own facts
.
We have to get this message out to ensure people know the difference. Having social welfare has not ushered in Leninism/Marxism/Stalinism.
Remember the caravan boogeyman in 2018? Howd that work for MAGA then? People see a system against them thats only been further stacked against them since 1/20/25.
What MAGA *should* ask themselves is why the communism boogeyman when jobs are being lost now, job reports are below expectations, prices are higher, affordability is a concern, healthcare has been ripped away from millions, inflation is higher and despite the promise of no new wars, US servicemen and women, plus more than 150 Iranian schoolgirls, have perished due to Bibi getting himself a puppet.
Wake up, America. Your occupant in the White House wants you to think your tax dollars helping your neighbor is bad while he helps himself to grotesque amount to tax money.
My favorite president in history, Lyndon Johnson, said, "If you can convince the lowest white man he's better than the best colored man, he won't notice you're picking his pocket. Hell, give him somebody to look down on, and he'll empty his pockets for you."
A 34x convicted felon is picking his own cultists pockets while brainwashing them that regular people are the problem.
And if youre a MAGA lurker and you dont care about any of the above, you dont love America, you love a 34x convicted felon and you hate liberals like myself. We will defeat you in November 2026 *and* November 2028, too.
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)And yes. Dismiss it as "fear porn." That's a great phrase.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)If we say we want social programs, how do we pitch social programs to people and work around the S label or the C label?
Raven123
(8,077 posts)We have had those social programs for many years, yet we are not communist or a socialist system. They are popular. Some who argue against socialism would dismantle them. So we can have societal support and beneficial programs without losing our identity. The idea is to determine what can be done best via a government program. Many people support Medicare negotiating drug prices. Why has that been so hard to implement. I think this is the low hanging fruit that we can use to frame the argument.
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)These are just a few of dozens of things that poll at REALLY high percentages. Across parties.
Hard as it is to see, we have a lot of common ground.
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)People are so worried about responding to right wing crap that they have neglected learning how to talk about our programs. They should listen to a Zohran Mamdani speech for pointers.
Most people in the country are hurting and hurting badly. Are we really going to waste time talking about what the true definition of the word communism is or what the true definition of the word socialism is?
Notice that when we (accurately) call then fascists they don't waste any time debating about the word, they pivot to their talking points and hammer on them.
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)"Mop wap mop wap mop wap mop wap"
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)No one is going to decide to vote Republican because Trump called Democrats communists. That's not the purpose of doing it. The purpose is to derail us, to distract us, to get us to defend ourselves, to get us to say, "no, no, we're not communists!" That's what looks weak to voters - reacting, justifying, denying. Meanwhile we aren't talking to the public about the issues, we are arguing with each other about labels. Score one for Trump.
We need to stop reacting in fear every time Republicans say "boo!" The public is looking for someone to fight for them, not someone to split hairs on the definitions of various ideologies.
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)What about "they're eating the cats and dogs?" Should we debate that with them?
Are we really struggling to know how to pitch social programs, programs that 70% of the people support? Never mind worrying about labels. Learn how to talk about our social programs and stop reacting to whatever crap the Republicans throw against the wall to distract everyone.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Nobody says were dealing with logical reasonable people here.
Remember, if you could reason with trumpers, there wouldnt be any.
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)It's a fool's errand trying to win over the hard core MAGA. "They are communists!" only works for people who were already going to vote Republican to taunt us and try to get a reaction. Just look at the reaction Trump is getting! It is all people are talking about.
MAGA aren't the people who matter. The people who matter are the people who are relatively politically unsophisticated. We need to speak to them, not react to Trump. We have two choices. We can either be strongly presenting our programs and talking about how we will be fighting for them and addressing their very real needs, or we can be running around denying every charge the Republicans make. The first is strong, the second is weak.
live love laugh
(16,587 posts)Torchlight
(7,339 posts)I take my hat off to you for this little "the glass shatters" momemt for me.
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)Republicans who are pouring your tax money into subsidies and bailouts and tax breaks for billionaires and corporations and corporate farmers. THAT'S socialism. We want to put that money back into programs that benefit you, not them."
ms liberty
(11,474 posts)dweller
(29,019 posts)
✌🏻
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)With Social Democracy
✌🏻
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)blubunyip
(324 posts)If we want a better form of Democracy, we might benefit from calling it something else. Not trying to sell it to MAGAs, just defining for our own purposes and maybe to speak to Independents.
CrispyQ
(41,207 posts)The dems need to hire a marketing company. They suck on messaging.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Even though they lie through their teeth. They somehow get people to buy their nonsense.
Scrivener7
(60,466 posts)how to message to them. Because they have people specifically employed tobdo that. Then they stick to that message with discipline.
We may hate their message but they sure know how to get it across.
CrispyQ
(41,207 posts)True Dough
(27,754 posts)
-misanthroptimist
(2,070 posts)Get several of them and wear them everywhere you go. It'll save time and reach people who aren't interested in discussing politics.
Polybius
(22,335 posts)
J_William_Ryan
(3,694 posts)Theres no such thing as woke as misrepresented and lied about by conservatives but the fascist right turned it into a culture war weapon, nonetheless.
The same is true for socialist and communist.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Theyre going on offense labeling us as socialists and communists. We need to defend ourselves and push back that social programs can and do operate within a capitalist economy, not the same thing as socialism or communism.
Talk about our plans, don't go chasing every idiotic thing Republicans say. If they can get you debating this, reacting, explaining, etc., they win.
Deuxcents
(28,413 posts)There are many services we all pay collectively and once they get that simple connection, Ive been able to talk rationally to a few people..not all but I hope to leave them thinking about the isms. I stay away from debating issues..most just wanna shot over me and its not productive.
The Wizard
(13,983 posts)Police, fire, military, roads, bridges are taxpayer funded because it's the most beneficial to society in general. It's the reason we have paved roads and garbage collection and public education.
I'm a Boomer, and when I hear other Boomers railing against socialism I tell them to return every cent they got from Social Security.
When LBJ was pushing for Medicare he was wont to say, "Just because you were born poor doesn't mean you have to die poor."
Unfettered capitalism becomes predatory, and left to its own devices destroys itself like sharks on a feeding frenzy eating each other until there's only one left.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Is both grotesquely immoral and a threat to national security.
Ms. Toad
(38,963 posts)Cirsium
(4,284 posts)Don't be suckered into this faux "debate." Can't you see how Trump was able to easily set the topic and everyone fell for it?
Starbeach
(406 posts)Its a deliberate form of hypnosis and the press then complies with his agenda. The word is repeated endlessly.
Cirsium
(4,284 posts)His words get repeated here ad nauseam, too.
It doesn't matter if people are "for" or "against" him calling us communists, either way it is getting the attention he hoped it would get.
RandySF
(88,330 posts)especially for people who arrived from countries whose slogan was Socialism or Death.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Just accept our defeat in November? Or do we fight back?
RandySF
(88,330 posts)it wont be because we left our little red books at home.
TommyT139
(2,560 posts)Using AI to generate posts is basically paying Trump and his cronies to criticize them.
They don't care. They get the money anyway.
Initech
(109,762 posts)It's seriously destroyed more lives than any amount of crack or heroin could ever do. Fox News and Rush Limbaugh did to our parents what they said video games would do to us. It's scrambled their brains and turned it into mush. It's convinced people that the most corrupt, morally bankrupt slob of a man is somehow the supreme leader. It's time to stand up to this bullshit and bury it with Rush Limbaugh.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Sadly.
RandySF
(88,330 posts)
intheflow
(30,319 posts)Im a librarian and I stop reading the second a post starts quoting AI. FFS, most of the Encyclopedia Britannica is available for free online.
https://www.britannica.com/
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Im sorry, did you mean to post a different link than the one you sent?
intheflow
(30,319 posts)Yes, I posted the link to the Encyclopedia Britannica, a vetted source. Are you upset because I didnt link to the entries about socialism and communism? Theres a search bar at the top of the page.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)To post something from Brittanica with something concerning the topic at hand, or just the home page?
intheflow
(30,319 posts)You can search for the info yourself.
Blue Full Moon
(3,830 posts)blm
(114,871 posts)
?fit=scaleEnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)Land doesnt vote. People do.
applegrove
(134,035 posts)Paragraph #4?
Socialism, on the other hand, is an economic system. It requires that the means of production (e.g., factories, farms, and businesses) be owned and managed collectively by the workers or the public, rather than by private individuals.Experts and economists across platforms like Quora and Public Seminar generally agree that conflating the two is a common political tactic. Social programs can exist in any societyincluding free-market capitalist economiesto provide a social safety net without dismantling private enterprise.
EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)If I messed up, my bad.
Response to EnergizedLib (Reply #54)
applegrove This message was self-deleted by its author.
Response to EnergizedLib (Reply #54)
applegrove This message was self-deleted by its author.
applegrove
(134,035 posts)EnergizedLib
(3,281 posts)I cited how social programs are not communist and how social programs are not the same as socialism.