ICE promises bystanders who challenged Charlottesville raid will be prosecuted

[mahatmakanejeeves]

Source: Charlottesville Daily Progress

IMMIGRATION
ICE promises bystanders who challenged Charlottesville raid will be prosecuted

After ICE raided a downtown Charlottesville courthouse and arrested two men, the federal agency is promising to prosecute the bystanders who challenged their authority.

Hawes Spencer 9 hrs ago

U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement has broken its silence, conceding its agents were responsible for the arrest of two men during a raid on a downtown Charlottesville courthouse and promising that the bystanders who questioned those agents will be prosecuted. … ICE also blasted the area's top prosecutor, who has announced he will be investigating the raid, as "posturing for the media."

"It is shameful," wrote an ICE spokesman who declined to be named in a Saturday morning statement, "that the Commonwealth Attorney, a sworn officer of the court and fellow law enforcement officer, has decided to prioritize politics over public safety -- placing a criminal's wellbeing above that of the brave women and men in law enforcement, whom the Commonwealth Attorney took an oath to support."

The spokesman was pushing back against Albemarle County Commonwealth's Attorney Jim Hingeley, who has announced an investigation into the raid and warned that "further actions like the courthouse arrests yesterday would constitute a grave danger to our community."

Hingeley has taken particular issue with the manner of the detention. Of the three plainclothes ICE agents captured on camera arresting one of the two men as he emerged from Albemarle County General District Court on Tuesday, one was wearing a balaclava masking his face and none displayed badges or arrest warrants to the man.

{snip}

Read more: https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_e6ce6e4a-4161-476f-8d28-94150a891092.html

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Questions and outrage after ICE raids Charlottesville courthouse
Hawes Spencer

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_c56b230f-68e2-438f-9a7b-02351b284520.html

[Irish_Dem]

1. Challenging the masked, no ID Gestapo ICE will result in prison time.

[Chi67]

13. No it won't.

It may result in having a court date, but not a conviction. There's nothing to charge people with.

Also, it's time to start taking photos of ICE agents, even if they have masks, and posting the photos. We need to make THEM afraid!

[Irish_Dem]

15. The charges will be obstruction of justice, just like they charged the judge.

We shall see if people go to jail or not.

Yes people need to start fighting back against the ICE gestapo.

[travelingthrulife]

34. What was the name of the group that found so many J6 insurrectionists.

They did a good job, identifying people and getting them busted.

These ICE people, whoever they are, need to be outed.

[cadoman]

25. the problem is there is no law requiring them to identify

At least that I can find.

It's tremendously problematic for them to not be well-identified and risks an escalating situation (even beyond the unconstitutionality of the agency itself).

[Irish_Dem]

33. Yes but the law says Americans have a right to defend themselves

Last edited Mon Apr 28, 2025, 04:47 PM - Edit history (1)

against people who are kidnapping them or assaulting them.
Especially men who are masked, no ID, no agency marking, etc.
We don't know if they are pretending to be officers or not.

The ICE Gestapo is just plain wrong.
They love being Nazis.

[cadoman]

36. agreed: it is a huge risk to agents

Because there is no telling if someone is going to mistake them from a rival crime unit and initiate lethal self defense.

There is also a risk that the public (many of them armed) will interfere with an arrest by mistaking it for an assault.

And yes Nazi admiration is a prerequisite for working at ICE--same as any police agency.

[Irish_Dem]

37. Exactly. Or they grab an armed American citizen.

Yes if I saw a young female being kidnapped, I would start screaming and taping the event.
Then of course Ice will arrest me for obstruction.

I will cuss the nazis to hell and back in the van as they transport me to jail.

[Happy Hoosier]

35. I get where you are going, but I think the courts will stand here.

There is no way that demanding to see proper ID is somehow a crime. And if it is, then we are already in deep, deep, trouble.

[Irish_Dem]

2. ICE becoming the most hated federal officers in US history?

[MayReasonRule]

3. Link...

https://dailyprogress.com/news/local/crime-courts/article_e6ce6e4a-4161-476f-8d28-94150a891092.html

[bucolic_frolic]

4. Pinkertons on a good day.

A lawyer who can't sway a jury with "Gestapo!" should hang it up.

[surfered]

5. By arriving in unmarked cars, wearing plain clothes and masks, showing no badge, and...

…without a warrant, they will be and should be challenged in the land of the free.

[SSJVegeta]

6. When are people going to start doxxing the agents illegally arresting people

Following an illegal order like the one to detain people without a warrant is just as horrible as the order itself.

[Chi67]

14. Exactly!

They are breaking the law. They have to identify themselves and cannot be in plain clothes.

[cadoman]

26. can you share a link to the law requiring them to identify?

I dug a bit but am coming up with the reverse answer.

[SSJVegeta]

29. HR 6395

Last edited Mon Apr 28, 2025, 12:25 PM - Edit history (1)

House H.Amdt.844 On agreeing to the Houlahan amendment (A013) Agreed to by voice vote. An amendment numbered 19 printed in House Report 116-457 to require that any Federal law enforcement officer deployed pursuant to 10 U.S.C. 253 be clearly identified by name and agency visible on their uniform or other clothing

On edit: this seems more in the event of protests or civil unrest. I wonder since the premise of alien enemies is to handle a particular perceived (IMHO "imagined" ) threat, would it count?
https://www.congress.gov/bill/116th-congress/house-bill/6395

[cadoman]

39. 10 U.S.C. 253 looks closely adjacent to ICE's ongoing "work", but does it overlap?

> The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

But tsf is invoking the Alien Enemies Act, so seems like it wouldn't apply? Seems like given the reasoning that he's using the insurrection act could also be on the table though, unless my layman's understanding of expansive terms like "domestic violence" is too broad.

[SSJVegeta]

40. Same here. I mean it seeeems like itll fit, like youre saying...

That beings said there is also overlaps with state law for a lot of these offenses. I imagine many of the illegal arrests in themselves could potential violate some state laws and procedures? Or does immunity come into play?

[cadoman]

41. Supremacy Clause would come into play

From what I can tell. This is just me chatting with AI though.

[Bayard]

28. I'm still wondering if the people they are nabbing are being read their Miranda rights

Isn't that a prerequisite for any arrest? Of course, they're not getting due process either.

[Irish_Dem]

38. ha ha Miranda rights. A quaint old fashioned artifact from the old days.

[cadoman]

42. Miranda rights apply to criminal interrogations

If ICE question a suspect, Miranda applies, but these arrests would fall under administrative/civil so they'd be a little different.

On the other hand, the GQP is always saying "they're all criminals" because they "entered illegally", so legally they can't have it both ways...

[tornado34jh]

7. Did ICE really think that they would not get noticed in Charlottesville, given its recent history?

I would think that Charlottesville, the place where the University of Virginia is and where many of my friends went, would know a thing or two about right-wing thugs. This is the place, after all, where the Unite the Right rally occurred and white supremacists killed someone on August 11-12, 2017. I don't think people are going to forget them and not see what ICE is doing as being anything different than those who were at the Unite the Right rally. I bet you many ICE agents probably went to the Unite the Right rally.

Here is another site I found that might get some more context into the men in question:
https://www.vpm.org/news/2025-04-26/dominguez-rodriguez-aparicio-marcelino-charlottesville-albemarle-ice-farmville

[mahatmakanejeeves]

8. Good citizens don't ask questions.

Thanks for the link.

[tornado34jh]

12. Well, again, if no one is asking what has occurred, no one would have known

That's what Trump and authoritarians want. They don't want people questioning them. You have to hammer them and make them uncomfortable. They hate that, but that is what is going to have to happen, because Trump and his crony government don't want people asking questions. Just like in the case with the judge in Wisconsin, there are bound to be questions that have to be answered. No dictatorship, monarch, or anybody who have absolute power has fallen without people questioning what their government is doing, and I have read about many dictatorships, monarchs, etc. throughout history.

[nwduke]

9. So that's where all those J6 pardoned felons ended up

Ice agent thugs!

[bluestarone]

17. Very possible!

Just saying. (How are we really gonna know?)

[Marthe48]

10. what will the charges be?

If the bystanders asked questions, that's free speech. Even if the bystanders cursed at the i.c.e. thugs, that's free speech. If the bystanders tried to physically impede the thugs, that's different.

But if the i.c.e. thugs are licit, why the hell are they anonymous? Anybody getting paid with public money should have a name tag and be readily identifiable, not masked.

I hope the bystanders said things to the i.c.e. thugs that stabbed into the dormant remnant of humanity that might be locked up in their bully personas. And the i.c.e thugs quit.

[cannabis_flower]

27. This has already been to the Supreme Court

City of Houston v. Hill, 482 U.S. 451 (1987)

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/482/451/

Ray has won four federal suits against the city of Houston for police abuses, including the landmark 1987 Supreme Court Case Houston V Hill. At the time, Houston law prohibited “willfully or intentionally interrupting a city policeman by verbal challenge during an investigation.” Ray victoriously claimed that Americans have a constitutional right to speak to an officer in the line of duty. Ray also helped John Lawrence usher his case against sodomy laws through the U.S. federal court system. In 2004, the Supreme Court ruled Lawrence’s favor in Lawrence v. Texas, ending the criminalization of gay male sex in America. In 1999, Ray received a Lifetime Achievement award from the Houston Chapter of the ACLU. He’s been featured in several documentary films, including the upcoming “The Trouble with Ray”.

https://theoutwordsarchive.org/interview/hill-ray/

[Buddyzbuddy]

11. I live 40 minutes from MS-13's origin in Los Angeles.

I know ICE has NOT conducted a raid in the area. That would become a combat zone. It is surrounded by businesses, sidewalk vendors and families.
MS-13 is well armed and their is another local very large well armed local gang in the area. Guess what, no citizens would protest their arrests and deportation but it would be a possible blood bath. No posing for photos unless you want to be shot. Machetes are commonly used in self defense in this neighborhood, in addition to the firepower. Whole apartment buildings have been set ablaze to target 1 witness to a crime.
ICE could have had LAPD cooperation but that's not how this administration chooses to operate.
They don't care about the innocent only how cruel they can be (rat face Miller) and photo ops.

[LymphocyteLover]

16. it's bad enough they don't have uniforms or ID, what the fuck is up with the balaclava???

It's creepy as fuck... I suppose that's why?

[mackdaddy]

18. So an Unidentified Masked Gang grab a guy off the street and shove him in a van.

I think they are lucky that no one used their Concealed carry 'instrument' to stop a kidnapping in progress.

Many states, Ohio for example do not even require a license to carry any more.

Even other uniformed police would step in to stop such a 'gang'.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

19. These are abductions & disappearances. Dry runs for abducting citizens. If they are official they can identify themselve

[Martin68]

20. So now they are intimidating witnesses. Conducting raids like criminals with covered faces and no badges.

[orangecrush]

21. ICE needs to be disbanded.

[azureblue]

22. Kidnapping / abduction

Until they display proper ID, show full face, and a warrant, they are kidnappers / abductors and should be arrested by citizens preventing a crime. And treated as child molesters / pedos if there are children involved.

If they flash a badge, yell "FAKE!" and demand paper identification, and photograph it, and say it looks fake, so you are calling the cops for impersonating a police officer. Call the cops and do not let ICE leave - tell them they are evading arrest, if they try to. Then, when the cops get there, make the ICE agents show cops the warrant, properly signed and show proper ID, then make them explain to the cops why they refused to ID them selves when attempting an abduction.

Maybe there is an attorney in the crowd, too... And, as another poster points out, what if a CC person pulled a gun on them and told them hands up or be shot? And held them on the ground until the cops came. All you would be doing would preventing a crime.

There are several "Failure to ID" laws, and cops who do not ID themselves run afoul of them a lot. ICE ignores this. They cannot prosecute people trying to prevent a kidnapping if they do not ID themselves from the very beginning, before they grab a person.. So that is the defense - "You Honor, I saw what looked to be a kidnapping or abduction by a bunch of shady looking men - I thought they were gangsters or something - they sure looked like it to me, so I jumped in to save the person. They attacked me, THEN they said they were ICE, but they never showed me a badge or ID."

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

23. 'There is nothing to see here............

just move along'........... GACK! Trying to intimidate people from asking questions.

[Cheezoholic]

24. ICE officers have no "authority". They are the enforcement wing of those with "authority" namely the US Congress

Flame me if you want but I just had a cop walk into my back door at 3am 2 weeks ago because it was open. I live in the country. He said they had a report of an emergency in the area. I told him to get the fuck off my property and he was lucky he didn't get a deer slug to the head. I hate cops period. Did I mention I have a Hispanic last name? Its coming folks. These fuckers can taste the power.

[Hekate]

30. ICE has become an organization of full-on thugs empowered by trump to kidnap anybody...

…wherever they are, whatever they are doing, whoever they are. They are terrorists travelling in unmarked vans, without insignia or ID or warrants. They “disappear” their victims.

They are America’s 21st century Gestapo.

[Figarosmom]

31. Why do they believe not IDing themselves and covering their faces like criminals

Should make people not question them?

Do they think that if people see someone being kidnapped they should say nothing or not call for help or ask questions?

[moniss]

32. My suggestion is that some governors should make it clear to the Feds

that if the State or local police see unidentified people with guns trying to grab other people, no matter where it happens, the State and local police are being authorized to assume it is a kidnapping and are authorized to use any force necessary to stop the kidnapping up to and including deadly force.

I know the arguments against such a move such as giving Crumb The 1st an excuse to declare all kinds of things. But I would simply point out that there must be a price to pay for kidnapping people and the local authorities cannot just stand by. Strongly worded letters and court cases lasting months and years don't get it when it is all being ignored.

The Feds know damned well they do not need to do this in the manner they are currently. They can get the proper arrest warrants and then serve and apprehend. Just like before. Before a time when they were given carte blanche to become the American Gestapo. In fact they should have that tag applied during any reference to ICE. It should now be ICE-American Gestapo or ICE-AG.Behave like it and you deserve to wear the label. Period.