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BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 08:44 AM 22 hrs ago

Supreme Court fight over birthright citizenship threatens 'chaos' in proving newborns' status

Source: CNN Politics

PUBLISHED Mar 29, 2026, 4:00 AM ET


Justice Brett Kavanaugh sounded like a fired-up prosecutor last year as he shot off a withering series of nuts-and-bolts questions about how President Donald Trump would carry out his plan to rewrite of the way birthright citizenship has been understood in the United States for more than a century.

Would hospitals have to change the way they process newborns? Kavanaugh demanded. Would state governments have to do something different? How would federal officials determine citizenship if a birth certificate no longer sufficed? “Federal officials will have to figure that out essentially,” US Solicitor General D. John Sauer managed to say amid a fusillade of rapid-fire queries. “How?” Kavanaugh pressed. “So, you can imagine a number of ways —” Sauer began. “Such as?” Kavanaugh interjected.

As the Supreme Court prepares to consider the merits of Trump’s executive order ending birthright citizenship on Wednesday, most of the same practical questions Kavanaugh raised a year ago remain unanswered. Some of those questions speak to the bureaucratic nightmare that Americans — including US citizens — might face documenting a child’s immigration status. Others go to the very heart of what it means to be a US citizen.

Most of the court’s arguments this week will deal with the history of the 14th Amendment’s citizenship clause, which makes clear that “all persons born” in the United States who are “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” are citizens.

Read more: https://www.cnn.com/2026/03/29/politics/trump-birthright-case-us-citizen

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Supreme Court fight over birthright citizenship threatens 'chaos' in proving newborns' status (Original Post) BumRushDaShow 22 hrs ago OP
We do not have the "best and the brightest" on our SCOTUS. MLWR 21 hrs ago #1
Yeah. Unfortunately... GB_RN 21 hrs ago #2
They're trying to enable the crafting of arguments to back up Trump's request. ChicagoTeamster 20 hrs ago #4
I know this is simplistic but we are all birthright citizens Srkdqltr 20 hrs ago #3
Insanity. This is settled law, even written into our Constitution specifically as an Amendment. Midnight Writer 20 hrs ago #5
Excellent comment! WestMichRad 19 hrs ago #9
It makes me wonder what is Kavanaugh's real position on this issue? FakeNoose 20 hrs ago #6
Damn, that's foul cause Dan 16 hrs ago #15
I didn't know he asked those questions. It's good that he asked them. LeftInTX 16 hrs ago #17
The Confederacy renounced their US citizenship by seceding. All of their descendants lost their birthright citizenship ChicagoTeamster 20 hrs ago #7
PLEASE, PLEASE Understand what EOs are and what they are not Bluetus 20 hrs ago #8
That is how it is SUPPOSED to work BumRushDaShow 18 hrs ago #11
We have to make it more difficult for Roberts Bluetus 16 hrs ago #14
We went through that exercise his first term BumRushDaShow 14 hrs ago #20
I am perfectly aware we don't control the GOP, the SCOTUS or the legacy media Bluetus 10 hrs ago #25
"It is crazy to just sit back and accept this. WE must do our part." BumRushDaShow 51 min ago #30
Going down a rabbit hole, I also saw this: LeftInTX 14 hrs ago #19
The below is the argument they are apparently going to try to use - BumRushDaShow 14 hrs ago #21
They used that arguement last year LeftInTX 13 hrs ago #22
As long as the SCOTUS keeps refusing stays on the illegal E.O.s BumRushDaShow 11 hrs ago #24
Has the SCOTUS allowed any of the bogus EOs to stand permanently? Bluetus 10 hrs ago #26
Remember that we are ONLY just over a year into this term BumRushDaShow 41 min ago #31
I seriously doubt, Bayard 19 hrs ago #10
"Or any other white baby" .... Would Trump /Roberts bring back the 'one drop' rule of race determination? Norrrm 10 hrs ago #27
Easy peasy WestMichRad 10 hrs ago #28
If birthright citizenship is dropped Old Crank 18 hrs ago #12
As is plainly clear, "What then ?" is not a familiar question to this WH. Shoot first, ask questions later, think never. eppur_se_muova 17 hrs ago #13
Donald should prove that he is serious - and there is a way Dan 16 hrs ago #16
The Supreme Court fight does not threaten chaos. The administration's suit threatens chaos. Martin68 15 hrs ago #18
Bureaucratic nightmare Mz Pip 11 hrs ago #23
Trump's perfect judge... Roland Freisler... original citizenship could be revoked Norrrm 10 hrs ago #29

MLWR

(1,017 posts)
1. We do not have the "best and the brightest" on our SCOTUS.
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 09:35 AM
21 hrs ago

This is, in fact, really not that hard. The Constitution is clear on birthright citizenship. If TACO wants to change that, the Constitution lays out the process for amending itself. And IT ISN'T THROUGH EXECUTIVE ORDERS. What TACO is trying to do is UNCONSTITUTIONAL. PERIOD.

GB_RN

(3,555 posts)
2. Yeah. Unfortunately...
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 10:16 AM
21 hrs ago

With Roberts et al., what we think unconstitutional means, isn’t what THEY think it means.

Midnight Writer

(25,403 posts)
5. Insanity. This is settled law, even written into our Constitution specifically as an Amendment.
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 10:55 AM
20 hrs ago

Do we really want government bureaucrats to determine who is a citizen and who is not? To determine who has Constitutional rights and who does not?

We are going to turn this ultimate power over to the likes of Trump, Stephen Miller, Markwayne Mullins, Pam Bondi, Ka$h Patel?

Listen, Supremes, leave our Constitution alone. They are creating loopholes in our inalienable rights. That is the opposite of what our Constitution and our justice system was created to do.

FakeNoose

(41,597 posts)
6. It makes me wonder what is Kavanaugh's real position on this issue?
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 11:09 AM
20 hrs ago

He's asking practical questions that the Chump administration hasn't addressed. Does it mean he's challenging their authority to make policy changes? It would seem so, but on the other hand ... it might mean something else.

Does Kavanaugh plan to frustrate Chump's plan concerning birthright citizenship, and shoot it down? Or maybe he's suggesting ways to make it even more evil than it already is?

One way to read this is perhaps he's suggesting that immigrants can no longer birth their children in American hospitals or with American doctors, since the birthright citizenship won't be supported. Or maybe he's suggesting that US hospitals shouldn't be allowed to issue birth certificates as official documents, since the birth certificate guarantees US citizenship to every baby born in the US.

Or maybe he sees the injustice and unworkability of Chump's policies and he wants to stop this before it goes any further. I'd really like to know.

Dan

(5,175 posts)
15. Damn, that's foul cause
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 02:47 PM
16 hrs ago

Donald Trump allowed lots of Russians (or rather pregnant) Russians temporary lodging to give birth to their American babies. I think that was at the TRUMP building in New York.

LeftInTX

(34,248 posts)
17. I didn't know he asked those questions. It's good that he asked them.
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 02:54 PM
16 hrs ago

Last edited Sun Mar 29, 2026, 04:16 PM - Edit history (4)

The Constitution is subject to interpretation, but sometimes practicality is a factor in decisions. There is also the question, can the president change a long standing policy via an executive order? If birth right citizenship is to be revoked, wouldn't that be a congressional decision, so that pages and policy can be written. Like, how to determine if the parents have legal standing....

Remember on the Obama Care, decision when Roberts said, "It's a tax".....Literally it wasn't a tax, but practically it was...

I've looked at this case and theoretically, they could just reinterpret the 14th amendment, but it will sure disrupt lives. And numerous policies would need to be written. Parents would need to prove citizenship prior to giving birth. The 14th amendment was designed to grant former slaves citizenship. Likewise, the Hildago treaty several decades early gave Mexican citizens residing in the US, US citizenship by desiginating them as "white".

It also begs the question: "How was citizenship of children of white European immigrants determined prior to the 14th Amendment?" It sounds like it was a bit hodge podge, but people didn't really seem to care.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Wong_Kim_Ark

The constitution makes it clear, that we can no longer ban citizenship based on skin color etc. But it was a supreme court case that allowed a person of Chinese descent be considered a US citizenship. Like Roe v Wade, the case could be overturned. Or the case could be reinterpreted. I don't put anything past the Supreme Court.

There are plenty of countries that do not allow birthright citizenship. India is one of them. There is a huge Bollywood star, born into a prominent film industry family, whose mom is a British citizen. Her dad is an Indian citizen and Bollywood producer. She was born in India. She is a British citizen. and not an Indian citizen. (India does not allow dual citizenship)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alia_Bhatt

Alia Bhatt (/ˈɑːliə ˈbʌt/; born 15 March 1993) is a British actress of Indian descent who predominantly works in Hindi films.[1][2] Known for her portrayals of women in challenging circumstances, she has received several accolades, including a National Film Award and seven Filmfare Awards. She is one of India's highest-paid actresses. Time awarded her with the Time100 Impact Award in 2022 and named her one of the 100 most influential people in the world in 2024.

Born into the Bhatt family, she is a daughter of filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt and actress Soni Razdan.

Bhatt was born into the Bhatt family on 15 March 1993[3][4] in Bombay (known by Mumbai since 1995), Maharashtra, India.[5][6] She is a daughter of Indian filmmaker Mahesh Bhatt and British actress Soni Razdan.[7] Mahesh is of Gujarati descent,[8][9] while Soni is of Kashmiri-Pandit and German descent.[10][11][12] Bhatt holds British citizenship



OK, it's a huge rabbit hole.....

ETA: Mexico does not grant automatic birthright citizenship. I know some US citizens (one may have residential status in Mexico) who did this and they had to go through all sorts of hoops. Baby did become a Mexican citizen, but Mexico had to prove that the parents were US citizens and the US was slow to provide documentation and they also would have been denied if the child would "likely be a charge"....So, they had to prove that they would provide for the child.



ChicagoTeamster

(945 posts)
7. The Confederacy renounced their US citizenship by seceding. All of their descendants lost their birthright citizenship
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 11:27 AM
20 hrs ago

If the parents were traitorous treason weasels, they lost their citizenship, so their children aren't US citizens.

And by extension all children of those children never had US citizenship. Maybe if one of their descendants was fortunate enough to have married a descendant of a citizen of the Union, then hooray for them, through no action of their own, their kids, and all of those kids kids are now US citizens.

But, other than that, all descendants of the Confederacy are not US citizens if there is no birthright citizenship.

Start packing Mofos "Get the FUCK OUT" !!!

Bluetus

(2,781 posts)
8. PLEASE, PLEASE Understand what EOs are and what they are not
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 11:28 AM
20 hrs ago

What is missing from just about every article and commentary on any of Trump's EOs is clarity that this is all bullshit legally.

The President has no authority to create law or overturn the Constitution. Executive Orders are simply instructions to EXECUTIVE BRANCH EMPLOYEES about how they should do their jobs, consistent with the law and the Constitution. If you are not a federal executive branch employee, then the EOs do not apply to you. EOs cannot tell Congress what to do. EOs cannot tell courts what to do. EOs cannot tell states what to do. EOs cannot tell corporations what to do. And EOs cannot tell exec branch employees to do anything that violates laws or the Constitution.

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
11. That is how it is SUPPOSED to work
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 12:37 PM
18 hrs ago

But as long as John Roberts' loony Justices continue to allow the illegal E.O.s to remain in effect (with very few that made it to them actually being put on HOLD pending a merits review, or HALTED completely, like the tariffs) then the damage continues to be done from the fake "legislating from the Oval Office".

That is because the federal employees get forced to carry out illegal orders, and if they don't, have been fired (requiring lots of $$$ and a number of years, to get their cases resolved and get their jobs back).

Bluetus

(2,781 posts)
14. We have to make it more difficult for Roberts
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 02:43 PM
16 hrs ago

And that means we have to educate the media. And that , in turn, means Dems have to be educated.

We lose more power by simply not objecting than we lose from elections. We must train the media to say "Wait a minute. Executive orders can't do that, can they?"

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
20. We went through that exercise his first term
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 05:22 PM
14 hrs ago

when many of his E.O.s were thrown out. But then he managed to get another SCOTUS pick confirmed in record time - barely a month - at the end of that first term (despite Turtle holding up Obama's pick for nearly a year "waiting for the election" and then handing that pick off to 45). That sealed the fate of any sense left on the court - despite all the promises of "stare decisis".

Remember, WE don't own the M$M media. The RW loons DO. So they are going to do what the GOP tells them and will ignore us entirely.

Bluetus

(2,781 posts)
25. I am perfectly aware we don't control the GOP, the SCOTUS or the legacy media
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 08:47 PM
10 hrs ago

But they DO sometimes respond to shaming and/or education. It is crazy to just sit back and accept this. WE must do our part. Whenever we are talking with anybody -- including here at this forum -- and the conversation includes EOs, we must take the extra time to educate everyone these EOs have no power outside the Executive Branch.

Yes, we sometimes have to litigate, and Trump uses that to his advantage. But the worst thing we can do is concede the fight preemptively. When we do that, we are our own worst enemy.

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
30. "It is crazy to just sit back and accept this. WE must do our part."
Mon Mar 30, 2026, 06:40 AM
51 min ago

Anybody reading my LBN OPs will see me doing this continually.

It appears that since there is a "newer" Congress, many have ZERO idea of the actual machinations of the federal government vs the state governments that many of them came from - and particularly the appropriations processes. So you only have a handful - some of whom are Ranking Members on Committees like Elizabeth Warren and Jaime Raskin, who HAVE emphasized the point time and time again.

But unfortunately, like I am seeing in the news reports across dozens of news sites this morning, the "freak show" rantings of a lunatic, are drowning that all out and the average person doesn't want to "get into the weeds" of governing.

LeftInTX

(34,248 posts)
19. Going down a rabbit hole, I also saw this:
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 04:52 PM
14 hrs ago

Snips of immigration laws

§1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth
The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United States at birth:

(a) a person born in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof;

(b) a person born in the United States to a member of an Indian, Eskimo, Aleutian, or other aboriginal tribe: Provided, That the granting of citizenship under this subsection shall not in any manner impair or otherwise affect the right of such person to tribal or other property;

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States who has been physically present in the United States or one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at any time prior to the birth of such person;
...........................

(June 27, 1952, ch. 477, title III, ch. 1, §301, 66 Stat. 235 ; Pub. L. 89–770, Nov. 6, 1966, 80 Stat. 1322 ; Pub. L. 92–584, §§1, 3, Oct. 27, 1972, 86 Stat. 1289 ; Pub. L. 95–432, §§1, 3, Oct. 10, 1978, 92 Stat. 1046 ; Pub. L. 99–653, §12, Nov. 14, 1986, 100 Stat. 3657 ; Pub. L. 103–416, title I, §101(a), Oct. 25, 1994, 108 Stat. 4306 .)

https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-prelim-title8-section1401&num=0&edition=prelim


It's an accumulation of laws passed in the 20th century. Since the law was passed, children born in the US were automatically granted US citizenship. Hence "subject to the jurisdiction thereof" was interpretted by congress and agencies in 1940 to simply mean those born here, and the exclusion would have been those who born to diplomats of foreign countries who were not "subject to the jurisdiction".

So it appears that Trump is trying to change a law, or how congress worded a law that it created or how they interpreted a law they created and how they implemented law they created based on their intentions at the time. The law's intent reflects it's long standing [b]implementation.[/b]

How they implemented the law was based on their intention.
Although, Trump can go "word salad" on "jurisdiction of" in the 14 amendment to the constitution, which is subjective to interpretation, Trump can't overturn long standing statutes via EO.....

I hope not, other wise, he can overturn any law via EO...

https://today.westlaw.com/Document/I6f209445294e11f18650b90c05b8b24a/View/FullText.html?transitionType=CategoryPageItem&contextData=(sc.Default)&firstPage=true

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
21. The below is the argument they are apparently going to try to use -
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 05:30 PM
14 hrs ago
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143640646

The unfortunate thing about how Roberts has reacted to old precedents and fringe theories, is to manage to find some idiotic wiggle room to offer an opening like was done with the bullshit "qualified immunity" that got morphed into "absolute immunity", and that helped to propel us towards the end of democracy as we know it.

LeftInTX

(34,248 posts)
22. They used that arguement last year
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 06:03 PM
13 hrs ago

But even so, the laws enacted by congress [b]should [/b]more or less supercede much of this back and forth......

I didn't know that there was an actual law in 1940, which gave way to how we implement birth right citizenship.


It really should supercede interpretation of the constitutuion because then the Supreme Court would determine that any long standing law written by and implemented by congress for decades is "null and void" via EO.

No one is contesting the constitutionality of the 1940 immigration laws, not even Trump....

He's just obliterating them by defacto...Maybe he isn't even aware of them....

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
24. As long as the SCOTUS keeps refusing stays on the illegal E.O.s
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 08:14 PM
11 hrs ago

allowing them to continue and cause massive damage and confusion, then their intent is clear.

The rare 2 things they responded to had to do with financial things - putting a stay on firing Federal Reserve people like Lisa Cook (for now) and throwing out the tariffs by using the International Emergency Economic Powers Act (IEEPA). Just about everything else including firing "independent Boards" set up through LAWS by Congress. mass layoffs of federal employees (violating several Civil Service Acts), among other things, are obvious examples about how they don't care about Congressional "laws" - at least in the immediate sense of halting the E.O.s that are breaking them until the cases are resolved.

Bluetus

(2,781 posts)
26. Has the SCOTUS allowed any of the bogus EOs to stand permanently?
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 08:50 PM
10 hrs ago

I agree that it is abusive even to grant stays. But it seems to me that Trump has eventually been overturned in just about every case when his bogus EOs have been fully litigated.

BumRushDaShow

(169,596 posts)
31. Remember that we are ONLY just over a year into this term
Mon Mar 30, 2026, 06:50 AM
41 min ago

and there are a number of cases that are still working their way through the courts, including the now overburdened Appellate Courts.

So for example, what we have to watch for is stuff like this - Supreme Court allows Trump to remove agency heads without cause for now now that they have heard the case and need to rule on it - Supreme Court seems likely to back Trump’s power to fire independent agency board members

Bayard

(29,640 posts)
10. I seriously doubt,
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 11:48 AM
19 hrs ago

That trump would deny citizenship to any baby born to all the white South Africans he brought over. Or any other white baby for that matter. Hospitals would be thrown into the position of having to determine citizenship.

Norrrm

(5,024 posts)
27. "Or any other white baby" .... Would Trump /Roberts bring back the 'one drop' rule of race determination?
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 09:14 PM
10 hrs ago

Old Crank

(7,053 posts)
12. If birthright citizenship is dropped
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 01:07 PM
18 hrs ago

What then?
Are all children non-citizens until the age of 18. Then they have to apply. Will it be for only 2 citizen parents to have citizen children at birth, Or a 1 citizen family? What happens to families who aren't citizens? Do we wait until they are 18 so they can decide? Or do we just deport them all.

eppur_se_muova

(41,921 posts)
13. As is plainly clear, "What then ?" is not a familiar question to this WH. Shoot first, ask questions later, think never.
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 02:28 PM
17 hrs ago

Dan

(5,175 posts)
16. Donald should prove that he is serious - and there is a way
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 02:51 PM
16 hrs ago

Deport Barron Trump, then Melania’s parents and of course Melania can stay, we always need for more strippers geniuses.

Martin68

(27,712 posts)
18. The Supreme Court fight does not threaten chaos. The administration's suit threatens chaos.
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 04:18 PM
15 hrs ago

Mz Pip

(28,452 posts)
23. Bureaucratic nightmare
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 07:50 PM
11 hrs ago

The logistics would be impossible to keep track of. How would this ever work?

Norrrm

(5,024 posts)
29. Trump's perfect judge... Roland Freisler... original citizenship could be revoked
Sun Mar 29, 2026, 09:18 PM
10 hrs ago

Trump's perfect judge... Roland Freisler
Such a keen legal mind that he put into law that original citizenship could be revoked...
Start approx 1:53 on the timeline.

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