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MayReasonRule

(3,817 posts)
38. Happy Sunday Again Y'all - I Really Appreciate Folks Like You That Desire To Dig Into The Heart Of The Matter
Sun Sep 21, 2025, 11:49 AM
Sunday
"Corporations are pure creatures of law; they do not exist without law and have zero powers until a government grants them some."


Though the Supreme Court did not use these exact terms, Citizens United centered on the ability of government to regulate the right of corporations to exercise powers of political speech that the state had granted them. When the court wrote,
“Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation,”25 it was a bit of shorthand. The long version is: Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation to which the Commonwealth of Virginia has granted the same powers as an individual to do all things necessary or convenient to carry out its business and affairs, among them (since Virginia law does not specify otherwise), the power to spend independently in candidate elections.


And because Citizens United was an entity to which Virginia had granted the power to spend in elections, the court found that Citizens United was an entity that had the right to spend in elections. Had Citizens United shown up in court as an entity to which Virginia had not given the power to spend in elections, the analysis would have to have been quite different.

A footnote in Citizens United itself underscores that the First Amendment comes into play only after a state chooses to grant corporations the power to engage in political spending. In his concurrence, Justice Scalia dismissed as irrelevant the dissent’s claim that the common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political spending: “Of course even if the common law was ‘generally interpreted’ to prohibit corporate political expenditures as ultra vires [beyond its authority and therefore void], that would have nothing to do with whether political expenditures that were authorized by a corporation’s charter could constitutionally be suppressed.”26 The necessary inverse is clear: When the state does withhold that power, it may treat any corporate political spending as unauthorized and void without triggering First Amendment scrutiny.

Think of it this way: Humans are born with the inherent power to live freely, pursue happiness, and shape their destiny. But they have not been granted the power to fly. Birds have, bats, pterodactyls—but not humans. It is useless to discuss whether humans have a right to fly, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning. Even if the Supreme Court decreed that humans had a constitutional right to fly, there is no amount of arm flapping that would result in humans taking to the skies, because they would still lack that ability. This lack of power to fly could not be held to infringe on the right to fly that the Supreme Court had recognized. It is simply an underlying reality that no court—not even the Supreme Court—can touch.

Likewise, when a state exercises its authority to define corporations as entities without the power to spend in politics, it will no longer be relevant to discuss whether the corporations have a right to spend in politics, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning.

Every scrap of corporate speech jurisprudence centers on rights and the authority of government to regulate them—and courts have consistently held that authority to be sharply circumscribed. The jurisprudence regarding states’ authority to grant powers to the corporations they create is entirely separate, and for more than a century, courts have consistently held that power-granting authority to be all but absolute.



Recommendations

1 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):

Nice to have a little hope Easterncedar Sunday #1
We need more ideas like this newdeal2 Sunday #2
Posted here on DU earlier this week mtngirl47 Sunday #16
Indeed, This Is Step #1 MayReasonRule Sunday #17
It's long, long overdue. xuplate Sunday #3
It is! The Citizens United decision happened 15 years ago, and has been destroying our country since. Scrivener7 Sunday #6
So what would be the result if WestMichRad Sunday #4
It appears that if you get Delaware on board, you get the vast majority of corporations. 81% in 2024. Scrivener7 Sunday #7
Great point! WestMichRad Sunday #9
Indeed, That Was My First Thought As Well Until They Mentioned Deleware Within The Audio Summary MayReasonRule Sunday #18
I wonder if this would cause corporations to leave Blue states MadameButterfly Sunday #26
While A Fair Concern... ProfessorGAC Sunday #49
It seems as if Delaware is the most advantageous state for larger companies, Scrivener7 Sunday #54
Very blue state. Delaware voted more than 56% for Harris in 2024 Wednesdays Sunday #59
But to do this, 70sEraVet Sunday #5
But if you got Delaware and the blue states, you cover a lot of the necessary ground. Scrivener7 Sunday #8
Could Delaware lose its status as the preferred state then? Lucky Luciano Sunday #11
That was my first thought as well... SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #12
They Discuss This Very Matter Within The Posted Audio Summary MayReasonRule Sunday #19
Instead of corporate loss Marthe48 Sunday #20
OK, but existing corporations probably wouldn't do that right away. Scrivener7 Sunday #13
The report addresses this newdeal2 Sunday #15
But, tell me if I understand this right: a state can regulate a corporation's activities to Scrivener7 Sunday #60
Dead On Point MayReasonRule Sunday #62
This message was self-deleted by its author Lucky Luciano Sunday #10
How would a state prevent TV commercials from another state from entering their airwaves? MichMan Sunday #14
Regional ads are used all the time. Add a regulation, and use that same technology. Scrivener7 Sunday #21
Yes, and if you live in the vicinity of a state border, you see or hear them all the time. MichMan Sunday #22
OK. So? Are you saying it shouldn't be done because a few people at the border will Scrivener7 Sunday #24
Because that would be overturned under numerous FCC, interstate commerce, and First Amendment grounds MichMan Sunday #30
What would be overturned? You'd be limiting the money from the corporations being spent anywhere. Scrivener7 Sunday #34
So Illinois could pass a law not allowing a corporation chartered in South Dakota from airing TV ads in Indiana? MichMan Sunday #39
No. It has nothing to do with that. Delaware passes the law. All the corporations that are chartered Scrivener7 Sunday #46
Has Delaware indicated they support it? MichMan Sunday #51
Oh, jeez. Maybe read the article. Scrivener7 Sunday #52
The article doesn't mention the odds of Delaware passing it. MichMan Sunday #53
Well, then, you should call the Center for American Progress and tell them you have more important things to do Scrivener7 Sunday #55
😁😁 MayReasonRule Monday #63
It's really a great idea. It doesn't take care of the billionaires and their pacs, but it does Scrivener7 Monday #64
Hell Yeah! Thanks Scrivener7! MayReasonRule Monday #65
Lol No. What Reeks Of Authoritarianism Is Having The Government Run By Corporations It's The Very Definition Of Fascism MayReasonRule Sunday #28
Waiting to hear how you prevent TV and Radio ads from other states from crossing state lines MichMan Sunday #31
There Are Technological Challenges, Nonetheless This Would Have A Profoundly Positive Impact Overall MayReasonRule Sunday #33
I still don't get your issue. It's a matter of where the corporations incorporate, not where ads go. Scrivener7 Sunday #35
If I understand you, if Illinois passed this law, any corporation from Illinois couldn't make political contributions MichMan Sunday #41
The vast majority of corporations are incorporated in Delaware. Delaware passes the law. Scrivener7 Sunday #48
I get what MichMan is saying... SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #43
No. It's not the state that's involved. It's the corporation. It's not the location of the ad that's restricted, Scrivener7 Sunday #50
Rec! Ponietz Sunday #23
Early in our history, corporations existed in a much more limited scope for a reason ToxMarz Sunday #25
Won't they all just .... Mustellus Sunday #27
They Discuss This Within The Twenty MInute Audio Linked Within The Body Of The Post MayReasonRule Sunday #29
What's to stop the MAGA SCOTUS from declaring the rewritten state laws unconstitutional? Fiendish Thingy Sunday #32
States Grant Corporations Particular Powers And Without That Power Corporations Have No Rights To Contest MayReasonRule Sunday #36
Doesn't answer my question Fiendish Thingy Sunday #37
Happy Sunday Again Y'all - I Really Appreciate Folks Like You That Desire To Dig Into The Heart Of The Matter MayReasonRule Sunday #38
Thank you for the deep dive, but this begs the question: Fiendish Thingy Sunday #40
Probably because Uncle Joe Sunday #42
No Doubt That There Are Officers Of The Court Within This Forum That Might Provide Greater Insight... MayReasonRule Sunday #45
Jeez. That's beautiful. Great find, MayReasonRule. You've made my day. Scrivener7 Sunday #61
You got me! SickOfTheOnePct Sunday #44
Here Ya' Go... MayReasonRule Sunday #47
I'm sure it's that you're just smarter than all the people in CAP who've been studying this. Scrivener7 Sunday #56
If only there was a lot of dark money behind it, it might have a chance of passing MichMan Sunday #57
Thanks for the post. cksmithy Sunday #58
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