Welcome to DU!
The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards.
Join the community:
Create a free account
Support DU (and get rid of ads!):
Become a Star Member
Latest Breaking News
Editorials & Other Articles
General Discussion
The DU Lounge
All Forums
Issue Forums
Culture Forums
Alliance Forums
Region Forums
Support Forums
Help & Search
General Discussion
In reply to the discussion: New research: Citizens United Can Be Made Irrelevant Via Changes To State Corporation Law [View all]MayReasonRule
(3,817 posts)47. Here Ya' Go...
"Corporations are pure creatures of law; they do not exist without law and have zero powers until a government grants them some."
Though the Supreme Court did not use these exact terms, Citizens United centered on the ability of government to regulate the right of corporations to exercise powers of political speech that the state had granted them. When the court wrote,
And because Citizens United was an entity to which Virginia had granted the power to spend in elections, the court found that Citizens United was an entity that had the right to spend in elections. Had Citizens United shown up in court as an entity to which Virginia had not given the power to spend in elections, the analysis would have to have been quite different.
A footnote in Citizens United itself underscores that the First Amendment comes into play only after a state chooses to grant corporations the power to engage in political spending. In his concurrence, Justice Scalia dismissed as irrelevant the dissents claim that the common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political spending: Of course even if the common law was generally interpreted to prohibit corporate political expenditures as ultra vires [beyond its authority and therefore void], that would have nothing to do with whether political expenditures that were authorized by a corporations charter could constitutionally be suppressed.26 The necessary inverse is clear: When the state does withhold that power, it may treat any corporate political spending as unauthorized and void without triggering First Amendment scrutiny.
Think of it this way: Humans are born with the inherent power to live freely, pursue happiness, and shape their destiny. But they have not been granted the power to fly. Birds have, bats, pterodactylsbut not humans. It is useless to discuss whether humans have a right to fly, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning. Even if the Supreme Court decreed that humans had a constitutional right to fly, there is no amount of arm flapping that would result in humans taking to the skies, because they would still lack that ability. This lack of power to fly could not be held to infringe on the right to fly that the Supreme Court had recognized. It is simply an underlying reality that no courtnot even the Supreme Courtcan touch.
Likewise, when a state exercises its authority to define corporations as entities without the power to spend in politics, it will no longer be relevant to discuss whether the corporations have a right to spend in politics, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning.
Every scrap of corporate speech jurisprudence centers on rights and the authority of government to regulate themand courts have consistently held that authority to be sharply circumscribed. The jurisprudence regarding states authority to grant powers to the corporations they create is entirely separate, and for more than a century, courts have consistently held that power-granting authority to be all but absolute.


Though the Supreme Court did not use these exact terms, Citizens United centered on the ability of government to regulate the right of corporations to exercise powers of political speech that the state had granted them. When the court wrote,
Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation,25 it was a bit of shorthand. The long version is: Citizens United is a nonprofit corporation to which the Commonwealth of Virginia has granted the same powers as an individual to do all things necessary or convenient to carry out its business and affairs, among them (since Virginia law does not specify otherwise), the power to spend independently in candidate elections.
And because Citizens United was an entity to which Virginia had granted the power to spend in elections, the court found that Citizens United was an entity that had the right to spend in elections. Had Citizens United shown up in court as an entity to which Virginia had not given the power to spend in elections, the analysis would have to have been quite different.
A footnote in Citizens United itself underscores that the First Amendment comes into play only after a state chooses to grant corporations the power to engage in political spending. In his concurrence, Justice Scalia dismissed as irrelevant the dissents claim that the common law was generally interpreted as prohibiting corporate political spending: Of course even if the common law was generally interpreted to prohibit corporate political expenditures as ultra vires [beyond its authority and therefore void], that would have nothing to do with whether political expenditures that were authorized by a corporations charter could constitutionally be suppressed.26 The necessary inverse is clear: When the state does withhold that power, it may treat any corporate political spending as unauthorized and void without triggering First Amendment scrutiny.
Think of it this way: Humans are born with the inherent power to live freely, pursue happiness, and shape their destiny. But they have not been granted the power to fly. Birds have, bats, pterodactylsbut not humans. It is useless to discuss whether humans have a right to fly, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning. Even if the Supreme Court decreed that humans had a constitutional right to fly, there is no amount of arm flapping that would result in humans taking to the skies, because they would still lack that ability. This lack of power to fly could not be held to infringe on the right to fly that the Supreme Court had recognized. It is simply an underlying reality that no courtnot even the Supreme Courtcan touch.
Likewise, when a state exercises its authority to define corporations as entities without the power to spend in politics, it will no longer be relevant to discuss whether the corporations have a right to spend in politics, because without the power to do so, the right to do so has no meaning.
Every scrap of corporate speech jurisprudence centers on rights and the authority of government to regulate themand courts have consistently held that authority to be sharply circumscribed. The jurisprudence regarding states authority to grant powers to the corporations they create is entirely separate, and for more than a century, courts have consistently held that power-granting authority to be all but absolute.


Edit history
Please sign in to view edit histories.
Recommendations
2 members have recommended this reply (displayed in chronological order):
65 replies
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
RecommendedHighlight replies with 5 or more recommendations

New research: Citizens United Can Be Made Irrelevant Via Changes To State Corporation Law [View all]
MayReasonRule
Sunday
OP
It is! The Citizens United decision happened 15 years ago, and has been destroying our country since.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#6
It appears that if you get Delaware on board, you get the vast majority of corporations. 81% in 2024.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#7
Indeed, That Was My First Thought As Well Until They Mentioned Deleware Within The Audio Summary
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#18
But if you got Delaware and the blue states, you cover a lot of the necessary ground.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#8
But, tell me if I understand this right: a state can regulate a corporation's activities to
Scrivener7
Sunday
#60
How would a state prevent TV commercials from another state from entering their airwaves?
MichMan
Sunday
#14
Regional ads are used all the time. Add a regulation, and use that same technology.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#21
Yes, and if you live in the vicinity of a state border, you see or hear them all the time.
MichMan
Sunday
#22
OK. So? Are you saying it shouldn't be done because a few people at the border will
Scrivener7
Sunday
#24
Because that would be overturned under numerous FCC, interstate commerce, and First Amendment grounds
MichMan
Sunday
#30
What would be overturned? You'd be limiting the money from the corporations being spent anywhere.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#34
So Illinois could pass a law not allowing a corporation chartered in South Dakota from airing TV ads in Indiana?
MichMan
Sunday
#39
No. It has nothing to do with that. Delaware passes the law. All the corporations that are chartered
Scrivener7
Sunday
#46
Well, then, you should call the Center for American Progress and tell them you have more important things to do
Scrivener7
Sunday
#55
It's really a great idea. It doesn't take care of the billionaires and their pacs, but it does
Scrivener7
Monday
#64
Lol No. What Reeks Of Authoritarianism Is Having The Government Run By Corporations It's The Very Definition Of Fascism
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#28
Waiting to hear how you prevent TV and Radio ads from other states from crossing state lines
MichMan
Sunday
#31
There Are Technological Challenges, Nonetheless This Would Have A Profoundly Positive Impact Overall
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#33
I still don't get your issue. It's a matter of where the corporations incorporate, not where ads go.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#35
If I understand you, if Illinois passed this law, any corporation from Illinois couldn't make political contributions
MichMan
Sunday
#41
The vast majority of corporations are incorporated in Delaware. Delaware passes the law.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#48
No. It's not the state that's involved. It's the corporation. It's not the location of the ad that's restricted,
Scrivener7
Sunday
#50
Early in our history, corporations existed in a much more limited scope for a reason
ToxMarz
Sunday
#25
They Discuss This Within The Twenty MInute Audio Linked Within The Body Of The Post
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#29
What's to stop the MAGA SCOTUS from declaring the rewritten state laws unconstitutional?
Fiendish Thingy
Sunday
#32
States Grant Corporations Particular Powers And Without That Power Corporations Have No Rights To Contest
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#36
Happy Sunday Again Y'all - I Really Appreciate Folks Like You That Desire To Dig Into The Heart Of The Matter
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#38
No Doubt That There Are Officers Of The Court Within This Forum That Might Provide Greater Insight...
MayReasonRule
Sunday
#45
I'm sure it's that you're just smarter than all the people in CAP who've been studying this.
Scrivener7
Sunday
#56