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wnylib

(27,061 posts)
55. Most American voters don't have that background understanding
Fri Jul 3, 2026, 07:45 AM
Jul 3

of Europe, but they do know that health care is more available there for everyone than in the US. I read your post about the cost of your recent health crisis. In the US, many people would have gone bankrupt to get that care. Others would simply not have received it at all because of an inability to afford the initial visit to a doctor to be diagnosed. By law, ERs here have to treat people who arrive without health insurance, but in practice, those patients get poor attention and treatment because they can't afford the cost of health insurance or to pay out of pocket for diagnosis and treatment.

Of course not all European nations are the same and not all people within them are the same. But in general, there appears to be a better approach to some issues of quality of life than in the US. Here there is an attitude that my German-born great aunt used to refer to contemptuously as, "I've got mine and devil take the hindmost." She was my grandmother's sister and their family left Kaiser Bill's German Empire in 1890 when they were young children, long before modern social programs.

From what I sometimes read, the EU's regulations on things like social media and food production and processing are more mindful of people's protections than in the US where corporations under unregulated capitalism are kings that own Congress. Yet European nations also have quite successful capitalist businesses and corporations. I don't believe that they are faultless utopias, but they are more socially oriented in many ways that we are not.

I was born a few years after WWII ended, so I remember when the US still had corporate regulations from the FDR era on monopolies that prevented huge corporate conglomerates from ruling as if capitalism were a governing system instead of being a financial tool of society. That was before RW politicians chipped away at financial regulations in pursuit of raw, unregulated capitalism.

I am also old enough to remember who the European leaders were that you mentioned. Not that I knew a lot about them, but I did have a very general idea of where they stood politically. Even with a more conservative swing in Europe now, they are socially ahead of the US in many areas of quality of life.

I don't have an in-depth knowledge of German history, but have learned on my own more than we were taught in high school and college courses on European history. I wanted to understand the background of my mother's family. So I understand what you mean about the post war period adjustments from the Prussian authoritarian, bureaucratic way of life.

My mother's paternal side were from West Prussia, near what was then the southern border between Prussia and Poland. Her grandfather was a Uhlan general from an untitled junker family. In 1888 he supported the social and political reform plans of Kaiser Wilhelm II's parents, Kaiser Friedrich and Kaiserina Victoria (daughter of Queen Victoria) for a parliamentarian system like Britain's. But Friedrich only lived a few months as Kaiser and his son, Kaiser Wilhelm II, charged his father's reform supporters with treason, so my mother's grandparents fled with their children to the US.

The maternal side of my mother's family came from a little village called Dargun in what was then Mecklenburg-Schwerin, not very far from the Danish border. The village was founded by Danish monks (13th century, I think) who built their monastery on a mission to convert the Pagan Germans there. That side of the family left, like hundreds of other people from Mecklenburg, for better economic opportunities.

Bureaucratic sloganeers are, IMO, the downside of socialism and one reason why I couldn't support socialism as a political/economic system. But incorporating some social programs into a capitalist democracy as the FDR adminstrations did, is something that I think Americans are ready to do as a reaction against the present move toward a fascist oligarchy.



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He's right Fiendish Thingy Jul 2 #1
I have been saying this over and over for the 8 years (today is my 8 year anniversary) I have been on DU Celerity Jul 2 #16
Happy Anniversary SocialDemocrat61 Jul 2 #30
thanks so much Celerity Jul 2 #35
What's the difference? Farmer-Rick Jul 2 #17
It's more than semantics Fiendish Thingy Jul 2 #23
I agree AZProgressive Jul 2 #2
And, believe it or not, as president, Biden was the closest to a Keynesian since LBJ. Fiendish Thingy Jul 2 #24
Like when the Danish PM reminded someone that Denmark's a market economy, not socialist. betsuni Jul 2 #3
That reminds me of a quote from Tom Souzzi AZProgressive Jul 2 #7
These secret conspire & whine cocktail parties sound intriguing. betsuni Jul 2 #36
Oh, and same revolution person said attendees at such Democratic events are "older, whiter, and wealthier" betsuni Jul 3 #43
Not only that DFW Jul 3 #44
I forgot the canapes: "Some of the wealthiest members of the political establishment are hiding behind closed doors betsuni Jul 3 #57
When I hear canapes, I always think caviar, which I hate DFW Jul 3 #58
I love the Scandinavian smoked cod roe caviar that comes in tubes (any seafood-mayo or cheese in tubes). betsuni Jul 3 #61
I used to get this a lot in France in the 1960s, from many 18 year old experts on the USA who had never been there DFW Jul 3 #63
Interesting experiences! electric_blue68 Jul 5 #69
At first, neither did I, but it soon became clear DFW Jul 6 #71
Interesting observations. electric_blue68 Friday #72
Norman Thomas, perennial socialist candidate, knew FDR was not a Socialist DBoon Jul 3 #59
More of us every day. BlueTsunami2018 Jul 2 #4
Socialism represents public power. Of course Emile Jul 2 #5
Absolutely, and, I'm tired of the bad faith false choice. Oneironaut Jul 2 #6
But MAGA morons believe Fox, and Trump, and SInclaire radio, NewsMax etc. They're dumb and hateful people ChicagoTeamster Jul 2 #8
Great, just please stop using the term "socialist." Say "Democrat." Period. Auggie Jul 2 #9
Doesn't matter SurfLiberal Jul 2 #10
That word can rally their troops. Like your idea -- stay home. Auggie Jul 2 #25
Doesn't mean you have to call yourself one Boo1 Jul 2 #26
Sorta like the Nordic model Joinfortmill Jul 2 #11
social democracy is a foundation for our Nordic Model (I am in Sweden) Celerity Jul 2 #13
The elephant in the room that is not being addressed here.. ananda Jul 2 #12
This message was self-deleted by its author applegrove Jul 2 #14
It is called liberalism in Canada. applegrove Jul 2 #15
The Liberal Party of Canada is not a social democratic party, the New Democratic Party is the social democratic party. Celerity Jul 2 #27
They could have had Polliviere Callie1979 Jul 3 #51
Economically, Carney is making multiple moves that are similar to what Poilievre would do, Celerity Jul 3 #54
Small "L" liberalism Fiendish Thingy Jul 2 #29
Used to be called that in the US, too. wnylib Jul 2 #37
Then the neocons took away the word liberal by making it derogatory. applegrove Jul 2 #38
I refused to have it taken from me. There is nothing wrong wnylib Jul 3 #41
Liberal and Socialist have been tainted by the Rs and their Big Media 31j20b3 Jul 2 #18
John Steinbeck quote anamnua Jul 2 #19
And that was many decades BEFORE Fox Noise. DFW Jul 3 #53
As soon as the Govt starts bailing out failed "free market" Capitalism, any argument against Govt social programs ToxMarz Jul 2 #20
Right you are. Tax breaks for corporations is just a direct applegrove Jul 2 #22
That's a consequence of financial deregulations that wnylib Jul 2 #39
Regulated capitalism saw capitalism as an economic tool. Capitlists seek to unleash it as a form of governance. ToxMarz Jul 3 #42
yup Skittles Jul 3 #45
It doesn't matter Cirsium Jul 2 #21
Too many FASCISTS in the U.S! Remember in WWII, it was the fascists who REALLY hated the socialists. eom Exp Jul 2 #28
In The Third Reich, they merged DFW Jul 3 #46
Absolutely. SamuelAdams Jul 2 #31
I have a confession to make SocialDemocrat61 Jul 2 #32
Same here. I have always said that I am a liberal Dem to the left of center, but wnylib Jul 3 #40
It gets complicated when you say As In Europe. DFW Jul 3 #47
Most American voters don't have that background understanding wnylib Jul 3 #55
Pretty sad when affordable day care, affordable rent, and affordable transportation are called "socialism". Bluetus Jul 2 #33
Sad and disingenuous as well. DFW Jul 3 #48
Krugman is tops BaronChocula Jul 2 #34
And the supposedly business-friendly Republicans cut Obama's business Stimulus package in half DFW Jul 3 #49
Scumbags BaronChocula Jul 3 #50
It is a mentality we will never understand, and they exploit that to the max DFW Jul 3 #52
"but they are grateful for our reluctance to do so" BaronChocula Jul 3 #60
I have run into Gingrich a few times, but never really talked to him. DFW Jul 3 #65
He's very wrong TVguyCards Jul 3 #56
I think most people voting for candidates to get universal applegrove Jul 3 #62
I wouldn't be so sure TVguyCards Jul 3 #64
"make the argument that workers should own the means of production" EX500rider Jul 3 #66
Ahh I was expecting you to say that :) TVguyCards Jul 3 #67
So the short answer is there have been no economically successful socialists countries? EX500rider Jul 3 #68
I can say back in NYC in the early 1970s there were some Socialists. I know because.... electric_blue68 Jul 5 #70
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