General Discussion

Jim Lane

(11,175 posts)

112. Your reliance on party registration is ludicrous.

Wed Jul 2, 2014, 11:03 PM

Jul 2014

The obvious question is: "If Nader had not been on the ballot, what would the people who actually voted for him have done instead?"

The three relevant categories of answers are: (1) voted for Bush; (2) voted for Gore; or (3) deprived of the opportunity to vote for Nader, found some other way to make themselves politically irrelevant.

We can ignore the last group. The issue is the comparative size of the first two groups. Every bit of data I've ever seen, including some from Nader himself IIRC, states that Group 2 would greatly outnumber Group 1. The difference between the two numbers would have represented Gore's net gain. It would have swamped the official margin for Bush in Florida. Gore would have had a cheatproof margin of victory and would have become President.

If you think that Group 1 and Group 2 are equal in size, you'll have to present some pretty powerful data to make that sense -- much more powerful than party registration.

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Gore not becoming President: whose fault? [View all] MannyGoldstein Jun 2014 OP

It was actually more than one thing Boudica the Lyoness Jun 2014 #1

The Supreme Court mainstreetonce Jun 2014 #4

Yes, if Al Gore had won his home state of Tennessee, Florida wouldn't have mattered. Electric Monk Jun 2014 #19

Tennessee was a little Florida when it came to vote fraud Samantha Jun 2014 #30

I don't believe voter fraud was to blame for Gore losing TN Reter Jun 2014 #39

Well, we will just have to disagree over this Samantha Jul 2014 #72

Why would he win that state? treestar Jul 2014 #97

Maybe because they elected him Senator earlier? HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #130

If nader didn't run Gore could have spent more time in TN instead of NM, WI, IA, and OR. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #102

Yes many factors, along with distorted media. gordianot Jun 2014 #14

Actually, the NRA via: W.VA and TN. nt kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #86

Yes, perfect storm treestar Jul 2014 #93

The American Electorate. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #2

The American electorate voted for Gore Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #17

No, they did not. Between 40 and 45% of the electorate didn't vote at all. Gravitycollapse Jun 2014 #38

Yes they did Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #47

So the only people concerned enough to vote voted for Gore? Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #58

By your criteria, no president has ever won an election Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #62

I suggested no such thing. I did say the electorate did not vote for Gore... Gravitycollapse Jul 2014 #65

Put it this way-- the Americans who cast their votes in November 2000 preferred Gore Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #66

WINNER! Cosmocat Jul 2014 #89

It was the butterfly ballot BainsBane Jun 2014 #3

Many things were to blame and fuck those who try to defend any of them JI7 Jun 2014 #5

Multiple, but Nader was a key. Without Nader, Gore wins. onehandle Jun 2014 #6

Gore did win. ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2014 #11

BINGO!!! SCOTUS...to blame for stopping the recount. nt kelliekat44 Jul 2014 #88

Assuming Nader voters were Democrats AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #24

One half of one percent of them could have prevented Bush. onehandle Jun 2014 #25

Nader got 1% of Republican vote AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #29

LOL! onehandle Jun 2014 #37

1% is almost ZERO appeal AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #40

Oh, AgingAmerican! Maedhros Jul 2014 #105

Your reliance on party registration is ludicrous. Jim Lane Jul 2014 #112

13% of Democrats voted for Bush in Florida in 2000 AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #118

So bleeping what? Jim Lane Jul 2014 #119

Do the math AgingAmerican Jul 2014 #120

True. Far more than voted for Nader. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #133

Heh. Erich Bloodaxe BSN Jul 2014 #127

No, he folded because he didn't want to see an open revolution in the Country Samantha Jun 2014 #42

Yeah, right AgingAmerican Jun 2014 #44

Open revolution, my ass. There was never any real chance of that. winter is coming Jul 2014 #57

There was no single culprit. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2014 #7

You might want to edit your post. There's a part in the middle where you appear to be winter is coming Jun 2014 #8

Translating...... "rim c;ao,omg tjat tjere os mpt dofferemce betweem" Electric Monk Jun 2014 #12

Thanks; that makes more sense. It was kind of like autocorrect on acid there for a while. n/t winter is coming Jun 2014 #16

yes sorry for the confusion. I'm posting from my hospital bed and my fingers no work so good. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2014 #20

Oh! Sorry; I didn't realize you were in the hospital. winter is coming Jun 2014 #23

Tomorrow or the day after, depending on the pain. Thanks. Agnosticsherbet Jun 2014 #41

I chose other because you didn't have the "corporate media" as a choice. Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #9

Yeah, the corporate media certainly stunk to high heaven Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #27

"Al Gore claimed to have invented the Internet" Which I believe truly explains their vitriol toward Uncle Joe Jun 2014 #34

Al did NOT claim to invent the internet. Punkingal Jul 2014 #90

You should read the post you just replied to. winter is coming Jul 2014 #91

Precisely, that's the point of my post. n/t Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #94

+1000 LondonReign2 Jul 2014 #101

Thanks, LondonReign, I view the corporate media as the Uncle Joe Jul 2014 #103

Not Nader's fault. Spider Jerusalem Jun 2014 #10

You're right. ForgoTheConsequence Jun 2014 #18

I think a reasonable case could be made Gore would have won NM, WI, IA, and OR by bigger margins hrmjustin Jul 2014 #108

FAR more Dems voted for Bush than Nader. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #134

And republicans voted for Gore. This is normal and happens every election. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #135

I voted Supreme Court but let us not forget that freak of nature, Marie Marie Jun 2014 #13

She was the bu$h campaign's co-chair in Florida Art_from_Ark Jun 2014 #28

It was a number of things. . . Stargleamer Jun 2014 #14

+1. n/t winter is coming Jun 2014 #21

Al Gore. Shitty campaign n/t leftstreet Jun 2014 #22

Al Gore, decided to play lap dog BlueStreak Jul 2014 #54

I'm amazed that nobody's clicked "Gore" yet. He wasn't a good campaigner. LeftyMom Jun 2014 #26

He ran away from a "popular incumbent" Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #55

That was stupid at the time and still seems stupid in retrospect. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #56

Gore won the popular vote Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #59

The economy was flying. It shouldn't have been close enough to steal, lose or fuck up in any way. LeftyMom Jul 2014 #63

Reagan was a moron, too Art_from_Ark Jul 2014 #64

Bush being a fucking idiot was seen as a positive at that time JI7 Jul 2014 #69

Voters? moondust Jun 2014 #31

I didn't mean to vote three times for the Supreme Court Rosa Luxemburg Jun 2014 #32

The voters Mz Pip Jun 2014 #33

Always vote for principle, though you may vote alone, Maedhros Jul 2014 #107

1, 2 & 3 G_j Jun 2014 #35

Supreme Court because they are supposed to uphold the law. Brother Jeb second McCamy Taylor Jun 2014 #36

4 and 5. nt LWolf Jun 2014 #43

USSC, BushCo. cronies, conservative Democrats, Gore, yellow, mealy mouth Democrats in that order. TheKentuckian Jun 2014 #45

If you blame Nader, you legitmize Bush. morningfog Jun 2014 #46

Would you extend that principle? Jim Lane Jul 2014 #113

All of those things are irrelevant when the critical point is aknowledged: Gore won. morningfog Jul 2014 #116

I try to pre-empt the "but Gore won!" response Jim Lane Jul 2014 #117

I don't think I can say but-for Nader, Gore would have won. morningfog Jul 2014 #121

the American sheeple reddread Jul 2014 #48

Gore may not have became president but he did win damnedifIknow Jul 2014 #49

Fuck Ralph Nader whatchamacallit Jul 2014 #50

Katharine Harris and Jeb Bush paying Diebold $4 million to cleanse the voter rolls of minorties Tony_FLADEM Jul 2014 #51

If Democrats keep focusing on the past Jenoch Jul 2014 #52

Jeb Bush, who refused a state wide recount Warpy Jul 2014 #53

In the end, it was Gore's fault BillZBubb Jul 2014 #60

It's the politicians job to convince voters to vote for him/her. Tierra_y_Libertad Jul 2014 #61

After re-watching George Carlin: Jammin' in New York, I wonder if he voted Nader in 2000? Electric Monk Jul 2014 #67

While other people had an effect, Nader was the single progressive with the greatest pnwmom Jul 2014 #68

i blame bill bradley. the gnewz media, AND nader. pansypoo53219 Jul 2014 #70

It was Bush. mattclearing Jul 2014 #71

Am I the only person on this forum who remembers the PMRC? beerandjesus Jul 2014 #73

Where's Choicepoint? lame54 Jul 2014 #74

SCOTUS and all the Republican voters who stacked that court. Bluenorthwest Jul 2014 #75

how about the damn media? ragging on gore's sighs and sweaters and supposed "lies"? unblock Jul 2014 #76

That's a good point MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #77

oh, they were so tough on shrub. the teetotaler you'd love to have a beer with! unblock Jul 2014 #80

Thank you! Punkingal Jul 2014 #92

the media was complicit noiretextatique Jul 2014 #124

Seeing how Gore really won Florida, the Supreme Court is the only logical answer! B Calm Jul 2014 #78

I blame the Democratic reviewers who approved the wonky design of the Palm Beach ballot LonePirate Jul 2014 #79

but even with all the dirty shenanigans that went on in Florida, Gore still had more votes. B Calm Jul 2014 #82

The SC would never had intervened as there would have been no month long recount LonePirate Jul 2014 #83

There are a lot of different angles and reasons to blame, but B Calm Jul 2014 #85

Supreme Court. It was not Nader... truth2power Jul 2014 #81

You should have also included the spinless Dems in Congress as an option...nt joeybee12 Jul 2014 #84

Florida cronies Aerows Jul 2014 #87

Diebold Indicted: Its spectre still haunts Ohio elections mia Jul 2014 #95

climate change ? NM_Birder Jul 2014 #96

Jeb and Harris--but the people blaming Nader KNOW that, as much as Rummy and Cheneybeast MisterP Jul 2014 #98

Nader , theft, and the Gore campaign. hrmjustin Jul 2014 #99

It was your fault, Manny. MineralMan Jul 2014 #100

When did the OP ever do that? KamaAina Jul 2014 #104

It's obvious to anyone who *really* pays attention MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #109

The Mineral Manny sig is creepy HangOnKids Jul 2014 #111

Is this my fault, too? MannyGoldstein Jul 2014 #110

Sandra Day O'Connor in particular El Supremo Jul 2014 #106

chad, nader, then Peggy Noonan and Tweety bigtree Jul 2014 #114

I refused to select because trying to name one is comparing apples and oranges. Jim Lane Jul 2014 #115

Just so no one gets confused... Oakenshield Jul 2014 #122

SCOTUS deserves ALL the blame noiretextatique Jul 2014 #123

You need a Jeb AND Supreme Court option yurbud Jul 2014 #125

It was my fault... kentuck Jul 2014 #126

three words tip it Jeb: FELON VOTER PURGE of 82,389 mostly black voters yurbud Jul 2014 #128

I will never forgive Nader RandySF Jul 2014 #129

Plenty of blame to go around. lumberjack_jeff Jul 2014 #131

Many reasons, but ultimately Al Gore. HooptieWagon Jul 2014 #132

Wow, more blame for Gore than Nader. joshcryer Jul 2014 #136

Why is this a surprise? I expected this outcome.... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #137

DU was created due to Gore being sabotaged! joshcryer Jul 2014 #138

Who's placing most of the blame on Gore? Not this poll...... socialist_n_TN Jul 2014 #139